“Shhh, don’t tell nobody,” Gibbs joked on Wednesday’s “RapFix Live” when asked if he has ever writing lyrics for another MC.
Still, show host Sway Calloway pressed on. “Is it a written agreement, is it a verbal agreement?” he asked.
“It’s a money agreement with me. If your money ain’t talking, I’mma talk. I’mma bust you out and say, ‘Yeah, I wrote that for him,’ ” Gibbs replied before admitting that he has lent his pen to about five different artists since his rise through rap’s ranks.
Kendrick was even more cryptic. Since his name started buzzing in late 2009, Lamar has been rumored to have written lyrics for some of the game’s biggest artists, but nothing has ever been confirmed.
When Game dropped his R.E.D. Album on August 23, however, both Lamar and Jay-Z protégé J. Cole received writing credit on “Drug Test,” a song neither of them appeared on vocally. Instead, the song features Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, singer Sly and, of course, Game.
“Yeah, we had some work to do with that,” Kendrick confirmed before explaining the process. “With writer’s credit, it can be anything from a melody, to just an idea thrown into the air. As long as they give you the credit for it, it doesn’t initially have to be the writing though. … I just threw a few ideas in the air.”
I don’t really care for the whole so-called “ghostwriting in rap” controversy. If anything, it’s too similar to having a bunch of writers on, say, a Beyoncé album. Music is already a sensationalized facsimile of life as is; I don’t believe 50 Cent still sells nicks and dimes any more than I believe Jazmine Sullivan will personally break a former flame’s car windows. I’m just saying.
Just helps us decipher the true from the fake more easily. More power to it.
How the fuck do you compare ghostwriting for RAPPERS to writers writing songs for SINGERS?? You really cannot compare the two..at all. Jazmine smashing windows is much more realistic and comparable to the wrath of a black woman. A scenario we all have experienced, know about, or can identify with. The same niggas claiming and screaming to be so real get faker and faker by the day. If Nikki Giovani came out and admitted that she had been ghostwriting for Maya Angelou, I think we’d be a lil bit salty and consider shorty a fraud. And wasn’t this our claim when people were straight up bashing hip-hop? That are music was our poetry and that we spoke what we saw? So how I’m gonna speak what another nigga saw? All this decieving and faking just to make a dollar…
Kendrick Lamar + Freddie Gibbs = Tupac Shakur
^Not even. Anybody who says they went their whole career without someone helping them write their shit is a fucking liar. And you already know Dre been having people write his shit. Not a secret. Some can write better, some can make the raps sound better. Some don’t have the image, and some don’t have the voices to make the rap appealing. Yes, the voice is important, it’s all about presentation.
@325
You just told him he couldn’t compare ghostwriting for a singer to writing for a rapper, then went on to use an example such as Nikki Giovanni writing for Maya Angelou? What? The difference is that Maya didn’t get up and rap or sing her poetry, she wrote it. And that’s it. In poetry like that, there’s just writing and text. So if somebody else was writing it, then what the fuck would Maya be doing in that process? Putting her name on it? That was a bad example.
” If anything, it’s too similar to having a bunch of writers on, say, a Beyoncé album.”
Not really, rap is the only genre of music that doesn’t rely on vocal talent, so it’s kinda like why are you even rapping if you can’t rap? Beyonce may not write her own music but she can sing. Rappers
Is that not what rappers are doing? At least singers are actually singing the text. Atleast they are actually showcasing some kind of talent. And to say that Maya just writes is not true. She preforms her poems just like other poeets. Have you ever seen Def Poetry Jam? And you basically said my point. If Kendrick or Gibbs is writing it then what the fuck are the other unamed rappers doing in the process? Rapping it, performing it and claiming it as theirs. Like I said, poets do perform their works if you didn’t know, and if Maya were to perform a Nikki Giovanni poem as her own it would be straight up wrong. How hard is it to sit down with a pen and paper and write? Build your craft. Niggas always wanna take the easy way out. Now, like Kendrick said, thowing out ideas and getting credit for it is okay. But that ghostwriting shit is so fucking phony
” If anything, it’s too similar to having a bunch of writers on, say, a Beyoncé album.”
Not really, rap is the only genre of music that doesn’t rely on vocal talent, so it’s kinda like why are you even rapping if you can’t rap? Beyonce may not write her own music but she can sing. Rappers
Proto said this on September 8th, 2011 at 12:49 pm
^^ Thank you!! You CANNOT compare the two. One actually has a talent while ghostwriting eliminates or forfeits the talent of the other!
“rap is the only genre of music that doesn’t rely on vocal talent”
That is a blatant lie. And any rapper or producer would be able to tell you that. You don’t have to know how to sing. But you do have to know how to breathe and keep a cadence. And there’s people who can write good songs but can’t rap. Rapping is a talent/skill. You can’t just talk your lyrics. You gotta flow, breathe, and keep a cadence. So I don’t really follow you guys.
you do gotta flow, breathe, & have cadence, but I personally think its just stupid if you have to have your raps written for you, I don’t think I can fully respect any rapper who doesn’t write their own material
A lot of singers don’t write their music but thats because they have the talent to sing. Singing is something that not everyone can do well. If you are a rapper and someone is writing for you then all you are doing is reading what someone else is writing. Yes, flow and breathing techniques do have an effect on a song but that is not a talent especially with todays technology. If you are standing up for rappers that dont write their own shit you are very lost when it comes to Hip-Hop.
How the fuck am i posting to quickly?
To the cats saying that you don’t need talent vocally to be a rapper you are absolutely WRONG. Can you imagine if Chuck D or Rakim sounded feminine like Kanye or Kendrick Lamar? The golden era would’ve sounded pink. Ghostface,Pimp C, Eazy E, all great mostly due to BIG distinctive voices that added EMPHASIS to just about whatever they said.
I never criticized ghostwriting for producer types like Puff and Dre, but cats like Wayne call themselves the greatest rapper alive-and then it comes out he’s being fed lines is worth the disrespect it gets. BTW on “Lucifer” that is Kanye who wrote the bridge “Man I gotta get my soul right…” Not Jay Z, but that is an example of ghostwriting on the production end like niggaz just throwing out ideas and flowing during a recording session… Not necessarily ghostwriting how most stans think it occurs.
yeah keeping a cadence, breathing, etc. does stand for something BUT i think it would be a little outrageous to compare that to singing. people CAN learn to sing but they may never be able to escape the range of a baritone, tenor, soprano, alto, etc because that’s just not how they were built.
it’s definitely harder to sing vocally than it is to rap vocally. I say ‘vocally’, because I’m only referring to the vocal portion. In singing, once you have the vocal portion down, you are a singer. problem is… some people spend their whole lives and will never get the vocal portion down. A singer’s attributes relate DIRECTLY to their vocal ability, i.e. – the tone in their voice
- their range
- how well they control their vibrato or if they even have any (R. Kelly)
- their precision in hitting notes (John Legend)
- their falsetto voices (Pharrell)
There are plenty of writing group collectives or production/writing groups that will help craft an album or single with you. It takes away from you as a complete ARTIST… but NOT as a singer.
However, on the Hip Hop side of things… a LARGE PORTION of the complexity of what comes with rapping involves
- structure
- rhyme patterns
- flow
- wordplay.
Not all of these qualities rely purely on an artist’s vocals. Therefore, the integrity of writing your songs in Hip Hop should be wayyy more crucial than most musical genres.
However, Kendrick is right… people often get formal song credits for professionalism and to avoid legal problems simply by putting their two cents or helping an artist rephrase a line or say it with a different flow… while I do think he used that as a cop out to say, “I didn’t write for Game and Dre”… he wasn’t lying.
Why the fuck would you get these guys to ghostwrite anything for you? Do they have a history of writing hit records or something? I like both these rappers to a degree but they seem really arrogant for some MCs that havent been in the game for too long. On the low they send shots at hip hop veterans and that shit is unnecessary. BTW you can get ghostwriting credit for just adding on one line in a song.
Lol nah yo, you gotta be able to flow yo, breathe dawg, keep cadence homie….seriously? And that’s comparable to singing. With a little hardwork all of those things can be developed And there are many main stream rappers out there who have proved that. But come on, i can be taught how to sing and will probably not still sound worse thank fucking omarion, why? Because i would Be lacking a little something called natural singing ability or natural talent. In rapping your talent is not in your fucking vocals, stop it, its in ur writing ability….and if you dont have that and depend on another mans, then you a fraud, plain and simple and we as fans and listeners need to be calling out these fraud and stop supporting them. With that said, as i mentioned earlier, throwing out ideas and helping with simple line structure is not ghostwriting and thats okay. But you got a lot of niggas out here faking real hard for a dollar, weaking our genre.
@marty mcfly
I assume you misread the paragraph so…
“Yeah, we had some work to do with that,” Kendrick confirmed before explaining the process. “With writer’s credit, it can be anything from a melody, to just an idea thrown into the air. As long as they give you the credit for it, it doesn’t initially have to be the writing though. … I just threw a few ideas in the air.”
What was arrogant about what Kendrick said there?
@marty mclfy Like the name, but you’re straight dumb bro. First, Kendrick doesn’t send shots. Gibbs does, but that shit is absolutely necessary. Second, why would an artist that’s making hits ghostwrite? It’s the unknown rappers that wouldn’t be able to make much more than youtube hits off the song that benefit from ghostwriting.
@Chicago , no I caught all that but heres why I made the arrogant statement. First off I know Kendrick isnt really an arrogant type rapper BUT this is the 3rd interview where ive seen him either take shots at rappers who talk about money , drugs or violence. Now its still all good because I know what he’s trying to say but he saying it wrong because even though he wont admit it , he looks up to those kind of rappers from that era because he keeps talking about it. My thing is this he need to just do what he do and stop making comments about what other rappers talk about because he too talks about the same things just from a different view point. I understand he’s still a kid so its unfair to judge him as a man with life experience thus far but when rappers try to point out whats unique about them by putting down other rappers its not really a good look IMO.
@marty mcfly as usual ur an idiot. Is someone who’s been a rapper longer than another rapper automatically mean he’s better? Fuck no. Generally speaking, rappers rap about the same shit; they need creative minds to bring fresh approaches to aforementioned same shit, especially if they’ve ever had and are looking for “hit records” to stay relevent.
And since when have “hit records” been about the lyrics anyway? Hit records & chart climbers are more about the production than the lyrics by far. Name a “hit record” in rap that was about the lyrics. Club records are usually the “hit records” and the lyrics are dumb as fuck.
And I thought you were a certified HNIC rap blogger SMH.
On the real though, Freddie & Kendrick need to put down some tracks ASAP.
*Hit records & chart climbers are more about the production AND THE HOOK than the lyrics by far.
Superstar
Hi my name is
Put your hands where my eyes can see
Triumph
Amillie
Lean Back
etc cause I can name 100 hit songs with dope lyrics
and bring in fresh ideas is all good but at the end of the day 99% of what comes out has been done before by somebody else. My generation came up on Nas so I have nothing against new rappers but to be anymore cooler then him its gonna be difficult.
This is a good look for both of them because as new artist, it doesn’t matter how special you are, how “hip-hop” you are or how much shit you spit that’s dope. I agree with CHE the listening to lyrics phase of hip hop is gone, it’s all about the hook which is usually poping bottles, selling drugs or living lavish. Kendrick and Gibbs are both dope but the way the are as artist is not going to come across as an international phenomen. So ghost writing or writers credit along with making their own projects are their best bets.
@325
And still not a lot of rappers can do that. Admit it, you made a stupid comment.
If you’re voice doesn’t sound right most people won’t like you. You can’t rap with a voice no one can’t stand. Part of Big’s appeal was his voice. Same with Ross. A rapper is an entertainer. If you’re not entertaining, the audience won’t fuck with you. That’s why you’re underground heroes come up in the underground then can’t make the jump. You stuck-in-the-past hippity-hop golden era niggas can’t seem to get that.
My personal hunch would be Kendrick & J Cole wrote Dr.Dre’s verse… Dre really doesn’t do anything anymore besides push his headphones..he rarely if ever produces any records, probably doesn’t even mix them anymore…he just keeps cashing Eminem checks and living the good life.
lmao, niggas gettin real heated about a blog post.
Wait when they say Games verse on drug test was ghostwritten by J. Cole does that mean his entire verse was written by him while Game sat on the sidelines and took the credit? Which leads to the question how much of R.E.D. was not written by game? How many of the hip-hop arists and their work that I have looked up to is not actually theirs? Sorry but this ghostwriting stuff bothers me.
@caves
no, kendrick just said that all he did was throw ideas around, and usually seemingly minor things like that are enough to receive writing credit.
Dudes claimin they are mcs and not writing their own material are garbage!
@Airborne…
You are why hip-hop is the way it is today. You are that fan the rick ross’s and Wayne’s and Minaj’s try to reach. That fan more concerned about “swag” and how much you entertain for em. The fan not concerned with the message, or in this case, who actually wrote the message…just as long as it is cool, and entertaining. And I dont think my comment was so “stupid” seeing that others in here have agreed.
@325 i agree with you that those are the people who have ruined hip-hop however like you clearly pointed out that he is a type of person so he/she is not the only one who likes or thinks that way as are you not the only one who agrees with your statement. so you’re kind of contradicting yourself.
all in all i guarantee some of your (you being everyone and anyone) favorite artists have had ghostwriters so please don’t sit there and say anyone who doesn’t write their own material is a fucking loser because quite frankly your favorite song might not be written by it’s performer. at the end of the day if you didn’t hear about it both parties were happy with the result so just shut up and enjoy the music or don’t, those are your only options