Well, are they? Check out Joe Budden, Lowkey, Valerie, Glenny and Raqi‘s discussion up top, then feel free to debate down below.
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i find it funny that mainstream hip hop fans support their artist more than hip hop heads do underground artists.
soon as a underground artist gets some shine he starts losing the underground fanbase.why?cuz hip hop heads are bitch ass niggas that claim they want the real but they just want to be on to the next big thing before they are the next big thing
only complete and utter tools will say we are not fickle on the comments.. i myself have been subject to loving eminem one moment, then absolutely hating him now becuase he wont stop fucking shouting at me in his songs
The underground i believe doesnt hate when an artist starts getting shine. They hate when an artist absolutely fucking depeletes his lack of creativity when going mainstream.
Exactly when they dumb their lyrics is when people hate em..u can’t tell me Drake’s lyrics weren’t better back in the day than they are now..and u can’t tell me he wasn’t using more than 1 flow back then cause now everything sounds the same
Co-sign @ Jayson, it’s not about them getting shine it’s about them changing their style when they do, why should I keep listening to the artist when he turns garbage just because he used to be good?
That being said I’m not a fickle fan, most hip hop fans are, I’m not, put out good music and I’ll support you, I wont start hating if you used to be good and aren’t anymore I just wont buy your shit anymore, if you start making good music again I’ll be back to buying your shit, my opinion of the artist doesn’t change but his output does, that doesn’t make me fickle. And while the artist puts out garbage I’m still bumping the old shit, I don’t just turn my back on artists.
Hip Hop fans are definitely the dumbest of music fans. They are by far the most closed minded sheltered fans of any genre of music. Only in “hip hop” do fans dictate their music choice by whether they like the personality performing the music. This goes for both mainstream artists and underground artists. For example, a lot of underground artists who keep it “real” get jocked by fans for being about it but at the end of the day their music sucks. The rhythms, productions, and rhymes suck. Yet, fans will support it. Hip Hop is just as much about the performer as it is their performance. And Hip-Hop fans are too dumb to distinguish the difference.
^ I know I’m a bit off topic, but fuck fickle…hip hop fans are dumb.
Hip-Hop fans are fickle their is no denying that. The hip-hop culture will never be taken seriously by others until we begin to pay respect to rappers who paved the way.
What Dolo says is so true though. Hard core hip-hop heads usually stop supporting artist once they go mainstream just because it has the title of “mainstream”. This creates an unhealthy rift between the fan bases of Hip-hop: the hard core supporters, and the usually younger and/or less educated fans or committed fans. Until we get Hip-Hop fan bases on the same page, their will always be a problem
Co-sign the third ear. Drake’s Comeback Season mixtape was better than his album imo. I do agree that most Hip Hop fans aren’t as savvy though, they’re quite ignorant when it comes to older and more timeless artists but at the same time I can understand it cos’ I can’t listen to some of that 90s shit, the sound is too old for me. Lyrically it’s cool but instrumentation wise it’s very limited in sound compared to what we have now. And I’m not saying I don’t appreciate it but I’d rather listen to something more evolved.
Wiz makes the same music,same topics as before and all of a sudden he’s a sellout.Same thing will happen to KRIT,Cole and K Lamar.
Best one yet
Speaking of what is called “hip hop”, I’d like to make a point that if the music on the radio is hip hop, it is on the lowest level. None of the music on the so called hip hop stations have anything to do with the four elements of hip hop (b-boying, djing, mcing, and graffiti), so as far as I’m concerned the music should be considered and is pop. Is Soulja Boy a rapper or just a rhymer? Anybody can rhyme, hell Dr. Seuss could rhyme would I go as far to call him a rapper? (Rhetorical) You gotta actually be saying something to rap.
But that’s another topic, hip hop fans are easily influenced though some are intelligent, most are munipulated especially now more than ever.
@Kwame: Not that Wiz changed his topics, is that he raps about the same topics (that work for him) on sugar coated hooks and beats. The Wiz I liked was the “Studio Luvin” wiz, not the “roll up” & “attract 7th graders to buy my album Wiz.” & that’s real talk.
off-topic: Lmao @ them watching family guy in the back
On-Topic: i agree with what most people are saying on this. hip hop fans are ignorant, passionate, quick to anger and easily influenced. that isnt a good combination of traits.
Personally, i hate “underground” rap fans who sit and listen to immortal technique and jedi mind tricks all day long and feel like they are superior to everyone else because of it. but those same “underground” fans can’t name all the members of the Sugar Hill Gang or the Jungle Brothers, and they were some of the original pioneers of the genre! or they would never listen to Anita Baker or Bobby Caldwell, even tho their songs are heavily sampled.
Or they’ll bash lil wayne for trying a rock album, when he’s just doing what an artist is SUPPOSED to be doing: EXPANDING HIS CREATIVITY. but because its not hip hop, they shut down and dont accept anything
@Clong22 Co-sign
Cofuckinsign Joey cause even in the vid the cats were strait contradicting themselves first shawty says “oh it’s music for the youth ect…” (when most of the top cats in hip hop are in their late 20′s 30′s and early 40′s IE Kanye, Wayne, Ross, Jay-Z, Swizz Beats…) “that talk about what’s going on in the street” *rolls eyes* ok cmon now really so all the Lambo’s, G5′s, I got gazillions of dollars is the “norm” GTFOH and then you go on to say oh yeah but nah down the line we will cherish our older Hip-Hop tunes ect… when right now cats can’t even remember lyrics to songs from A YEAR AGO. Let’s call a spade a spade IT’S ABOUT THE MONEY in this genre and the exceptions of cats who have heavy fan bases differ from the traditional perception of an MC and subject matter that doesn’t fall in with the rest of the $ hit driven ones (and they are dope like Em, Lupe, Bob…) Plus the thing with hip hop unless you got $ then your music and content AINT SHIT cats only respect you when you got this check these numbers ect…
There is one thing that has been bugging me. How old is rap/hip hop, it started what in the 80′s and didn’t really take off until the 90s? While all these other genre’s(Rock or Country) have been around since the 50′s if not longer. I think that Rap/Hip Hop’s age affects our fan base’s fickleness. We haven’t matured as much as the other genre’s yet. Could be mistaken though….
@Major Labels please bring back the ARTIST DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT. @FANS learn the history of hip hop that way you can take it too a different place.
Oh and to Valerie Lora hip hop aint the only plight driven music talkin bout oh they had what we aint fool have you ever listened to a country song? a reggae song? a rock song? and the list goes on shiiiit specially reggae where BOB MARLEY would sing a thing or 2 about making music with nothing and look how he is respected not only in his genre but in MUSIC period. Shiiit gonna tell me some isht bout *grumbles*…
That last one was for the ARTISTS my bad.
@mcfly this is artist development…right here on these blogs..rappers dropping songs,freestyles, getting feedback. These blogs are even organizing shows for buzzing rappers to get on.
@C my dude hip hop was born in 74′ blew up hard in the 80′s where you had Run DMC sellin out the garden Fresh Prince, NWA, SLick Rick, LL Cool J, Public Enemy and the list goes on kept it going to higher heights in the 90′s and here we are so the culture been around for almost 35 years ok and had nothing to do with the fickleness you got die hard drum and bass fans, jungle fans, techno fans, electronica fans AND THEY ARE ALL YOUNGER THAN HIP HOP (not yelling just illustrating) It’s the mentality of money cats don’t see this as art but as a job, a way to get something so success to most is not measured by what comes out of the speakers but instead how many zeros you can get behind a number. How many cats you know say “oh yeah I do this to feed my family, i’m eatin ect…” as opposed to “I can’t live without this even if I never make a dime offa my craft” please yet you have other musicians that will say take everything that I have but I can’t live without my music
@Rocks , i know but label heads can be good thing sometimes because a artist sometimes could be bigger if they just listen to a veteran. We can take Lasers for example even though I dont like the way they treated the homie , they still gave him Beautiful Girls ft. B.O.B in the beginning and The song with John Legend and even though us hip hop heads aint thrilled about the album , its prolly gonna be his most successful album to date. You know why Biggie was so great because Puff maximized his potential same way Fat Joe did for Pun or Steve Rifkin did for Wutang. You could be a great Mc but to be a superstar or an Icon takes some focused work and direction.
As for fans I think people just dont wanna give it up and their expectations are so high that if a artist aint throwing money around then hes looked at as not dope. Its not just Hip hop fans that are stupid but just people in general are stupid because they dont wanna consider that theres something out there they dont know about.
Both these girls proved Joe’s point. SMH
Sorry…ALL these muthafuckas proved Joe’s point.
marty mcfly< wat they did to LUPE is wats WRONG with hip hop they FORCED him to make an album they way they wanted wen he already had 2 successful albums and a strong fan base. that is wat makes ppl not respect the music and stops people having a legacy cos as joe said at the end "there just working".
rap music is a very young genre. when other genres started up years and years ago, those genres grew and became more complex. in hip hop’s case, the genre was starting to get big at a time when the internet was starting up. this is a big issue that joe budden failed to acknowledge in this video, because all of the piracy that was caused by the internet caused a lack in innovation in music; at a time when sales were decreasing because of the internet, record labels wanted to duplicate what was selling at the moment, rather than support artists that were being innovative and original. this had a strong effect on hip hop, even though people don’t seem to talk about it very often, for some reason. at the point in time when hip hop was beginning to grow and should have expanded into a number of different directions like other genres did in the past, the internet came a long and put a strain on the creativity. joe budden’s complaining about how there’s nothing new in hip hop, and i believe that this is why; the internet. look at michael jordan, he did things back in the day that no athlete could get away with without having to apologize like crazy for and get a lot of flack for. that was because the media was less invasive, although it still was intrusive, but news didn’t spread as fast. nowadays, with the internet, if gilbert arenas gets caught with a gun, everyone’s talking about it and his career comes to a sudden hault (although he’s recently returned as a lesser version of himself). if a rapper does something that rappers shouldn’t do (i.e. ja rule this decade or the game getting a butterfly tatoo), everybody knows about it, and the rapper’s career is seriously harmed. joe budden’s talking about how rappers come and go nowadays, as if that doesn’t happen in other genres. sure everyone knows who the beatles and elvis are, but there’s plenty of rock stars from this past decade that nobody remembers. that’s because other genres didn’t get their legs caught off as they were beginning to rise like hip hop did by the internet. rap fans aren’t dumber than before; young music fans in general are. IMO.
fact<< CO SIGN.
anyone else think the girls in the video are retarded and don’t know what they’re talking about?
This vid was hilarious. Not only are the fans “fickle” even 3/4′s of the debaters in the debate ABOUT the fans can’t even comprehend the debate enough to debate it intelligently.
Budden was on point but when he brought up Ja Rule’s old hits and how he’s not respected enough for having those hits.. I couldn’t help but to think of “Pump it up” hahaha. Though the point Joe made with Ja was a valid point.. Ja really isn’t a valid example because he and his entire label killed themselves by taking on another label that was equally as loved and getting exposed in having a lack of substance. That’s what killed his rep.
The problem is, is the artists who are popular now, revel in the ignorance. Other genre’s have artists in the spotlight who take the time to honor those than came before them and it’s because of that, that you’ll see… Rock fans (for example) listening to The Who, The Beatles, and Pink Floyd at the ages of 12,13, and 14. They were led there by the current bands.
Meanwhile, in Hip Hop, you have Soulja Boy saying “Fuck Ice-T.. he’s an old ass man..” and the morons in charge of Hip Hop publications saying “Well.. Soulja has a point.” Who is the youth supposed to take the cue from? How are they supposed to know to look back to the past and appreciate the evolution when the people who have their ears are, in some cases, literally saying “Fuck the people that came before me?”
Hip-Hop is a direct reflection of the black community, so the fickleness come from people way of living. With the younger heads being obsessed with “being real” and “No fake”, and achieving the “American Dream”, then of course it’s gonna reflect like that in the music. Look at the time period where the Golden Era take place. We had things that forced black people to united under one banner. The Regan Era, the LA Riots, etc. I always say the reason why you hear what you hear on the radio in terms of hip hop is the sense of complacency black people have come to enjoy. The problem with underground fans is that they listen to music with political tones, but don’t wanna teach their follow black man it. What’s the point of having all that knowledge by listening to the music if you ain’t gonna try and help your people? I really think in the 21st century, black people have just forgotten what it took to get where we are. We always have that crab in the bucket mentality instead of the each one, teach one mentality. Once that change, the fans will change.
Hip-Hop fans today support and artist over their music. I feel like a Drake fan will support Drake even if he drops a garbage song. Its not even about the music anymore its whos more popular and who got the most swag and all that shit. Ive been a Jay-Z fan since day one but ill be the first to call the blueprint 3 trash. Its all about the music to me and once an artist starts making music he thinks people wanna hear instead of music that is personal to them i stop supporting them. I agree that hip-hop fans dont know about the history and culture of hip-hop and the biggest problem is that they dont care. These fans think that because they know every word to every lil wayne song that they are a hip-hop head. That shit just makes you a lil wayne head. The difference between mainstream and the underground is musical control. Mainstream artists dont have full creative control over their music where underground artists do. I also feel like hip-hop isnt as mature as it used to be. They were talking about how jay-z has grown and evolved but not one of his albums were as in depth as Reasonable Doubt.
We really have to stop considering 16 years old youtube comentaries as “what hip hop is thinking” or even twitter. Yes I stop listening to ja rule, 50, jay z, nas a lot and a lot of groups (>>”yes I hov’ niggas” and I had no idea that ja rule went to prison.). Still a mos def, mf doom, q tip, pharohae listener. Some years back I was thinking what hip hop will left and now is more like when hip hop will stop coming with new stuff? I simply do not have time to look back but it’s not true that we don’t follow artists for years some artists are making certain type of hip hop that only appeal to young listeners and others simply not, I’m still listening that Digable Planets albums not my fault if they stop coming with new materials, not my fault if ATCQ break up, I didn’t shoot biggie, I have nothing to do with what ever happens to MED carreers (looking forward for the new album so), I can’t tell what happens to a lot of groups that just disapear, Rakim do that a lot. A lot of shit happens in hip hop history that can explain why no rappers still that famous, as an example Slick Rick went to jail, stuff like that, that makes me say that is not only the public.
@john
dude what are you talking about the internet didnt put a strain on any creativity on the contrary I see more cats who have a platform to put out isht that otherwise would never see the light of day. You think Odd Future would ever EVER have gotten any attention if it wasnt for their outside fanbase? Cmon son the internet didn’t cut off nobody’s legs only the pockets of labels (which reverts once again to the money argument) you can’t sit there and tell me that isht specially with all the artists alone featured on this blog and others who have an outlet for they music. Wtf are you talking about man the net didn’t stifle creativity on the contrary it showed that there are ALTERNATIVES. And sorry RAP FANS ARE DUMBER THAN BEFORE and I do mean the average fan them bitches in video proved that isht now that’s a fact.
@BillyClint , thats also true but I just think rap music is looked at as just street music from the fans and not art. If im in the studio with a street rapper , I mite play him some Nirvana so I can show him how to gradually pick up intensity so by the time he gets to his last verse the song sounds bigger. Those type of tricks can only be learned from a person who has been around music for years and if a artist is fresh off the block and wants to rap he mite get a fickle fanbase because his music aint dynamic enough. Thats why music is so easy to forget because its not done to the best of an artists ability plus there are 1000 new songs coming out a day so its easy for people to forget or down play a artist that was just on top last year.
Macu < co sign
i think yes hiphop fans are "ignorant" but so are all other generes..just ask ur friends who are into other music..-bk to topic-
if an individual says they are only doing the music for the money..which is wat alot of rappers say now..u cant expect me to respect their music..rick ross 1 of the biggest artists today..his carrer is literally built of the caricature of rappers..big..rich..and a cocain dealer..wen really he was a c.o..u just cant take his music to heart n expect us to come out to a rick ross concert in 20 years like hes pink floyd..becasue he is letting us know..i am all about money..im selling you a product..a sterotypical one at that..and u have everyone defending him..cos his BEATS is great..lol..imagine if michael jackson went around trying to make us think he really was the charachter is "smooth criminal"….smh…
till the rappers themselves stop saying there only doing it for money..well then u cant expect fans to be real fans.
fact <the net had a part to play in it. but bottom line the point was labels wanting to recreate wat made money. which theyve always done.
Hip-Hop then was about what was true to the artist…. Hip-Hop now is about how the artist wants to be perceived
Hip Hop effectively became a recognized music around 1979. That was 32 years ago. A person born in that year is 32 years old. No other genre before Hip Hop had the ability to spread as far as it did so yes it took longer for say Jazz to become more mainstream. But not only has Hip Hop been able to become massively marketable through TV and radio, but ALSO the internet. 32 years is not short, especially with all the things Hip Hop has access to in order to make it grow. So let’s please cut the “It’s still young”. How old does it need to be to be considered “old”? It’s effectively grown up.
marty mcfly< i agree with ur last statement..im just sayin..lupe already had really great material..and if he needed any musical advice, he had pharrel kanye and jay z…but wat was happening was the label wanted to make him do a 360 deal cos he was getting big and if not control his stuff so they cud get more bang for their buck quicker..lupe said it himself.
them chicks sound fucking stupid that’s all
@Maco but you can learn alot from listening to Mcs from the past. You bring up Slick Rick but if I posted some of his lyrics up it would show you how much more advanced he was then rappers today. He could rhyme syllables for like 8 – 10 bars all with like three words rhyming a piece in each line and it would all go together and complete a full story at the end. Rappers now just cannot do that no matter how high they are or how long they sit in the lab.
@ ya boy rampz you dudes are completely lying if you say that Drake sounds any different on Comeback Season, than he does on So Far Gone or even his album other than he sings alot more often, which he sang on comeback season also.
and this is the reason, that fans are completely fickle. Half the time “dumbed down the music” means that he has a hit single or the general public fucks with him, so I cant. An artist is just cooler to hip hop fans when no one knows him because then its an exclusive, i have alot more hip hop knowledge than you thing.
Never thought id see the day when a dude, who is lyrically talented and keeps proving it, gets shitted on like Drake. and the dude who makes similar music to him (J. Cole) is loved much more. Never have i seen a dude like Wiz who makes virtually the same music hes made years ago be called a sellout. Never have I seen fans of any other genre hate on a artist, cuz he supposively is old (Jay), because he supposively keeps getting played by women (Nas).
Rap fans are the most fickle, close minded, fans period and were all guilty of it sometimes
@BillyClint , yeah Atlantic was still wrong by how they came across like they didnt appreciate Lupe.
Hot ladies, I’ll give you a nickle to tickle my fickle.
And Buddens wouldnt care about fickle fans if more fans actually liked him.
to fact:
i believe that without the internet having the effect on music that it did, in terms of piracy, hip hop would be VERY VERY different, particularily mainstream hip hop. i’m not going to say how different it would be, because it’s unfathomable, but i believe that the average person would have a better respect for hip hop in general, because the record labels would be pushing innovative artists, rather than making carbon copies (i.e. drake is a carbon copy of lil’ wayne’s style). although there are more chances for people, such as yourself, to get big through the internet, the effect of music piracy is just such a bigger issue than that. there’s a benefit to the internet for aspiring artists, but there’s also a very strong impact on it negatively in terms of quality and quality control.
@ john you see right there. i was starting to agree with your point until u said Drake is a carbon copy of Wayne. As artist they are not even close to being alike except some similarities here and there.
but this is what we do, because Drake is associated with Wayne, and they both are mainstream, and all these little kids like them cause they have mass appeal. We say shit like u just said, which is false to anybody who listens to both and knows the difference style wise and lyrically
@BillyClint
Agreed it played a part but I don’t like arguments that are solely founded on the net killin hip hop like the labels were just sitting there like nothin.
Also I knew isht was fucked up once I started hearing that “lyrics don’t matter no more” smmfh of course cats gonna be muthafuckin morons if the words you speak have no value and i’m not even talkin about content necessarily i mean LYRICS. That’s why it’s true that 2day’s average fan is dumber cause anything that is more complicated that a 2+2 rhyme creates a brain meltdown and isn’t “consumer friendly” *plays Lupe’s Dumb it Down*.
Fuck Joe Budden. I’m not gonna listen to anymore of his stuff now..
to krow132:
i honestly don’t listen to drake or lil’ wayne ever, unless my friend throws them on, so i couldn’t go that deep into it. when i said that, i was just commenting on the similarities in cadence that drake has to lil’ wayne. he also does that thing lil’ wayne does (which was stolen from kool keith) where he’ll end the line on a cliffhanger, and then say the corresponding word with an emphasis on it. trying to think of an example, because i know i’ve heard them both do it on a couple songs, but i honestly couldn’t name a single drake song, so i got no examples. anyone who’s listened to him though should know what i’m talking about though.
@ John
You mean the “Take this toy and put em in a Box, Cracker Jack!” style lines. To be honest dudes like Wayne and Drake probably have no idea where that style originated because they got it from the current battle scene, where it’s highly overused.
True hip hop heads are astute, intelligent, empathetic (to understand situation they have never need a part of, and loyal to the true art… problem is, rap fans are not hip hop fans… Rocks sucks (I don’t care if your sad or your girl left you or you do cocaine – old school shit is dope), country if garbage (besides old school bluegrass), pop is blasphemes (controlled by marketers and advertisers), and folk… well… some is dope if it speaks to the public… the rest are just neo-Hippies… Hip Hop speaks to the people…
As far as people making a joke of rock artist with the law (Like Ja Rule)… Pete Townsend is a fucking pedophile!!!! I mean come on!!!
There are two types of hip hop fans. the fuckin’ SHEEP who nod their heads to what the radio tells them to like,
and the people that can sit down and articulate what message is trying to be conveyed through the music.
@ John. for sure, they both do that, actually its not just them. everybody (including some old rappers everyone loves and respects) does that now. Which is how Hip Hop tends to be in general. My point is though, if you don’t know either of them that well why make that kind of statement, which is what most people do and then that throws fire into some stereotype thats not even necessarily true. Like me for examp, ill never say some shit about an artist that I haven’t downloaded a full project off, whether a full mixtape or an album or at least heard a good amount of songs by that artist.
People also gotta stop fighting over what artist is better or who is mainstream or underground. What if all songs were party songs ? That would suck but what if all songs were serious dark sounding records ? Then we would forget that hip hop is about having fun. The thing I like most about Drake is he studied the art of making music before he jumped in it. He studied the art of singing as well and on his album he talks about Wutang clan , Dilla , Dead Prez-2nd verse on OVER and you can tell he respects the music. So why would you be surprised when the industry embraces him , he shows that he is in it to make great music and he respects his influences. Drake was prolly the a backpacker in canada and a true fan so he knows how to pull off great music.
@krow132:
tbh, i’m writing an essay that’s due tomorrow, so i don’t really have time to think of the best examples (shyne’s a great example). and i’m not trying to stereotype against either of those two artists, but you yourself agree with the comment i made about them that they both do that punchline thing. and that’s all i was saying; maybe carbon copy was a stretch, but they do both have very similar cadences.
People also gotta stop fighting over what artist is better or who is mainstream or underground. What if all songs were party songs ? That would suck but what if all songs were serious dark sounding records ? Then we would forget that hip hop is about having fun.
——————————————————————
quoted for real talk. everybody now acts like they don’t want to hear some super lyrical shit when they are just hanging out. Different type of artist cater to different moods, and they all have places where they work. I would never download a wacka flocka album, but there is instances where i can vibe to some of his shit.
Niggas act like everyone has to sound like an up north east coast influence rapper
Hip hop fans are ignorant and closed-minded..end of story
I should write you a fucking hit, Joey.
You a nasty old man Joe
Just felt like putting my .02 cents on this topic. Yea there are a lot of problems with the hip-hop genre and having ill-educated hip-hop fans is definitely one of them. But also a big problem are the hip-hop heads themselves. That always bash the mainstream and believe that only type of real hip-hop is when you have a dude rap about the struggle and the streets over a gritty soul-sampled beat. Of course, I like that shit as much as the next guy but people should let hip-hop evolve. The type of hip-hop I just described was not at all what it was when hip-hop first came to being. People are always hating on Soulja Boy for not being hip-hop (and yes I personally think he is garbage) but one can make the argument that he is the definition of hip-hop when it started. Which was basically a simple beat with an mc making simple lyrics which basically got people to dance.
In order for hip-hop to stay relevant and get to the plateau at where genres like Rock are, it needs to be able to be open to everything. It should incorporate pop, soul, electronics, country, foreign music, etc. So far hip-hop seems to only be respected if it comes from the streets but such a stupid notion as that is what keeps it from being universal because not everyone can relate to it. So I just realized I might have gone OT a little bit lol but my main point is yea hip-hop fans can be fickle and be swayed so easily just on certain ideas what hip-hop should be that they don’t stop to think for themselves what music they actually like, instead they just focus on the principles. Hip-hop started as a movement for the youth but in order for it to truly become universal, it has to be much more than that.
@krow132:
i’ve heard tonnes of songs by both drake and lil’ wayne – it’s almost impossible not to, considering the popularity of the two of them – but i wouldn’t consider that i know them very well, because i don’t own any of their albums and couldn’t recite any of their verses. i wouldn’t say that i know tech n9ne very well, even though my best friends bump his shit all the time around me, and i’ve been to two of his concerts. but i don’t personally own any of his music, and i couldn’t recite any of his songs like i could for artists like blu or the beatles.
Hip hop is youth orientated. It was stared by the youth,it is fueled by the youth. The youth are fickle.They are always on to the next big thing. Rock went through the same transition that hip hop is going through. Rock is just a older muisc,so a lot of the fans have grown with it. Joe has to accept that the hip hop hegrown up with is different . It will change with the youth,but the artists that you grew up with can still be there and give you what you like. A lot of the hip hop fans are having a hard time with growing older. It`s gonna happen whether you like it or not,so keep a open mind.
john< so basically u dnt kno anything about the 2 artists u say sound exactly alike…that sounds like fickleness lol.
i didn’t say i don’t know anything about them. i couldn’t name their songs, and i couldn’t recite their verses, but i’ve heard enough songs to know their similarities.
Firstly, Joe led a dope discussion which led to a dope c-section. My perspective is that we must be fickle to keep up with the music. In no other genre can you download 20+ mixtapes a month with 10 of those coming from artists that you’ve never heard before. If we don’t make quick, fickle decissions we simple cannot keep up. I admit that I judge the artists not only by their music but also by who they are. That tells you a lot about their music and is a great short cut for diciding which of the 20+ mixtapes I am willing to download. If an artist puts out a couple weak projects, he/she is out of my rotation; simply because I don’t have time to give them any more chances facing the flood of new hip-hop everyday.
and about the “dropping artists because they went mainstream”
I have 4 examples…B.O.B. I was feeling all of his mixtapes and was anticipating his album more than any other album that year. I deleted it from my iTunes after giving it countless chances to appeal to me. next is ESSO, same thing happened, he was making awesome introspective music, then he saw the success of wiz and completely jocked his style. Huge disappointment. But on the other side is fashawn and sha stimuli. Both made great mixtapes and refrained from going mainstream in their albums. Still at the top of my list. But fashawn has fallen off a little with his past two mixtapes… idk if his going mainstream or if I’m just not feeling his latest efforts.
Budden is exactly right on cue with off the break! There are too many battles now that didn’t exist 15-20 years ago…Hip Hop was soo much better when it wasn’t popular in the mainstream. If you ask me that’s what ruined it! From the time Corporate America saw that Hip Hop was more than fad…it pimped out everything about the culture! Now Hip Hop is the most prominient presence in American Culture with muthafuckas who have no business being involved in it, and don’t know nearly enough about the culture to bring anything substantial to it. Hip Hop is still dead!
I just gotta remind people that if a artist gets in a major position and he refuses to make anything for TV or Radio its a very good chance his album will get shelved and he will be dropped from the label and end up back on the block. I think its time people appreciate when a artists crossover. They got different tracks on the album so you can pick your favorite tracks but a artist shouldnt have to make only street records to be considered real.
the label heads didnt help lupe they hurt him, the album may sell more but the songs cut off the album were songs that lupe put his heart into, it hurts the artistic side of the genre if you just cut songs because people might now buy the album, that doesnt help anyone it hurts the music and its labels like that who create bullshit artists that put out crappy music (gucci mane, (new) lil wayne, paul wall, etc) just so it will make them big money, thats makes people today disrespect and discredit hip hop and rap, todays fans are worried about the beats and how dope it sounds to bump in your car while you ride down the street, not the lyrical content and what the artist says in the song, hip hop will never get respect while its still dominated by artists who only talk about bling liquor and bitchs period
Black people are stupid. This is what I’ve been telling everybody all along!
i feel the best part was when he talked about Ja Rule…. this generation now I doubt could name/sing 5 Ja Rule songs, and it wasn’t so long that he had shit on padlock. we don’t appreciate artists anymore —
“RAP is something you do, HIP HOP is something you live”. I don’t need to hear this emo rapper Joe Budden discussing shit he has no knowledge about. that whole panel is out of touch with the questions they asking themselves. comparing fans of different genres of music is straight idiotic. where I’m from…niggaz out here in NYC knows exactly the history and tradition of the music. we don’t rely on HYPE of certain artists who’s cross town or crossed over. we birthed that shit and are kings of this shit. what happen to hip hop is, the industry corporate niggaz who run it stabbed the culture in the back. alot of artists themselves can’t soul control their music because they got themselves in the habit of thinking selling records is what makes the artist. I’m from that era where niggaz had to build and destroy with skillz. these new era niggaz are on stage introducing their lawyers, agents, publicists, hair and make-up artists, limo drivers, babysitters and tour bus cooks before they start a show. “rap is out of control”…word to EPMD.
Why cant people like commercial songs like Lupes Outta my head with Trey songs ? Dont you people party and go to the club ? Do you wanna listen to songs like Words I never said and Beautiful lasers at a barbeque or at a family get together ? Commercial songs for mainstream is a form of hip hop because its very difficult to make a song that everybody likes. The Cool was a dope album but at times its too dark at times thats why people think real rap fans are always serious. Radio songs dont mess up hip hop , bad radio songs mess up hip hop. If your a artist thats happy sometimes then that should be in your music. Rap is the only genre of music where you have to be mad all the time or the fans say its not real shit. If 50 cent never made IN THE CLUB or P.I.M.P that would be wack. If Lasers was all serious with no fun moments that would suck too. Im not saying his label wasnt acting like some bitches but what im saying is maybe Lupe needed to learn how to lighten up and not take everything so serious. Radio songs serve a purpose for kids and adults that have the radio on during business hours at their jobs and its kind of hard to party all nite to the sounds of Mobb Deep , Slaughterhouse and Sean Price. Hip Hop needs a balance.
@mc fly. never was about being street all about quality, when Outkast get that mainstream seller position they keeped hip hop fan support when BEP lost it, ja rule lost it so soon that it’s like he never had some respect before (way before 50), 50 stands for a couple of years. After that it’s really serious to consider further succes as an hip hop succes/phenomen? Like eminem? Let’s not make hip hop public pays for the 16 years old kids who comment on youtube, that liked ja rule and now like lil wayne, nicki minaj or rick ross. Do that ppl listen to Blu? HISD? Fashawn? Dom? Maybe but I seriously doubt it.
Are we fickle as fans? The answer is mos definitely YES. Yes there are some outliers to this statement, but the majority of us hip hop aficionados are fickle. Were looking for the next big thing. This does not mean that we forget or are oblivious to other/previous artist, it just that we are concern with whats IN, whether we like it or not. And if I knew before you, than I have a state of mind that I’m cooler than you. That’s how the fans base function 2day, and not only in hip hop. This is the case for all music genres. It just seem more obvious in hip hop because there are ample of case to point towards, but what CURRENT ARTIST will be able sale out Madison Square Garden in 20 years??? From any genre. ???? And part of the reason as some of you have already alluded to is the mass media coverage that now exist. Jump back 20 years and artist who you liked, you only had like one chance to see him/her/them live and maybe one or two chances to see them on t.v throughout the year. In addition you couldn’t get there music unless you had there physical cd unlike 2day where you can have artist discography without ever having held one of there albums. So fans stuck around with artist longer, basically grew up with them. And there wasn’t a new artist getting pushed everyday. Now-in-days artist gets 24/7 coverage whether warranted or not (this usually takes place when artists are about to drop something). And there always seems to be a new artist you must check out. This lead to my next point: that it seems that as a hip hop fan, I seem to be getting quantity over quality. And this at the end is what is deteriorating hip hop as a whole. Not to say it all the artist or fan or industry fault, I thinks its a combination of all who is to blame. We hope artist make music that is relevant in some manner, that is “real,” but many times they attempt to make music that really doesn’t pertain to them in order to get more notoriety. How can we certainty know if this artist is attempting something new or trying to expand his/her/their artist abilities??? At the end, I think fans just want good music, but then again what the EFF is good music. What you like, I may not like. The industry itself, its no big secret that it wants to maximize its profit. So it well follow the formula that has produced the most and this tends to be pushing some artist for a year or two and then moving on to the next artist. Preferring quantity or quality, that way they maximize their profits. As fan we don’t support artist whom we really like enough and doing more bitching than anything else when an artist doesn’t meet are expectations. Yes as fans we are fickle, but there is so much more involve with why we are fickle.
tbh..ja rule ehhhh…he was the same guy talking about “its murder”..acting all gangster selling that “thug lifestyle” which any grown man cud see thru in 1 second singing in showers in jail in his videos , singin in a fun fair dresses as the fonz the next minuite..ja rule was a joke..who did alot of corny stuff..thats y he got no respect..cos his career wasnt respectable he did wat he needed to do to sell records and acted like a 2pac dmx hybrid…
rappers are too quick to pick up the mic n say the most serious things, im a killer, im a drug dealer, im pimpin girls..then 50 cent comes round ends ur carrer while ur looking literally like the fonz in ur videos..and u want to be hailed as hiphop greatness? lol u want him to b hiphops prince? or m.j? or beatles? or elvis? lol get outta here.
Im just saying what do you think a artist like Currensy and Skyzoo work hard for years for ? To never get on radio or have mainstream success ? When a artist blows up it should be looked at as a good thing not a sell out thing.
and the internet has made things worse..look at all the jay electroinca “FANS” …loved him when exhibit c and a came out..he has literally around 60 songs out if not more..and ppl are calling for his blood because he hasnt relseased an official album yet..thats like jay z releasing resonable doubt and crucifying him becasue he hasnt yet reached in my life time vol.3. the “fans” or shall i say consumers..have no patience.
@BillyClint
No one has any patience. That’s not exclusive to Hip Hop fans. Nowadays, especially with Web 2.0, people are used to getting things now when they want it. And if you as an artist can’t constantly release material or do something so people can remember you a little longer, you’ll be forgotten. So many distractions and other artists constantly releasing stuff, you can’t drop an album and disappear for two years like you used to be able to.
i’m not the biggest joey fan but i think he hit some key aspects right on the head
it’s the right of any music fan to be fickle with these artists. they make millions of dollars and blow it on bullshit. then they wanna whine about not being able to get back on or bootlegging killed the sales of their album. my message to any hip-hop “artist” or any “artist” in general, is consistently put out quality material that gives us hope that hip-hop isn’t a dying piece of shit that even you don’t care about. every artist is looking to sell out or buy in, that they don’t realize their fans gave up on them and their walking commercial of a life
Mainstream changes rappers and so does money, I love how budden and that chick were embracing jay-z even though the most the fans who grew up on jay dont give him the time of day anymore. How about Nas, he has managed to stay on the block and keep the same fans he has had since illmatic, i love how they dont mention nas he is definitly the exception to jayz. Nas also raps about issues that matter to people today, but of course they dont mention him. The reason why i would be labled fickle, (and i dont think anyone has mentioned this) is bcuz when i first started listening to wiz khalifa over 2 yrs ago i liked his music alot even though it lacked substance of others on my ipod. But ever since black and yellow hes has probably tripled his fan base and i have no problem with that, but then i go on to facebook or any social network and see my freinds who are all about pop music and have no taste for the elements of hip hop posting these new wiz songs i have a hard time staying a fan cuz these pop fans dont know music
is just sad. pathetic even
@BLCK1
you say jay-z changed, but as a stan I have to say I disagree. Jay-Z is about the only person who has really been consistent over his entire career. nas fell off a long time ago in my opinion. had to do a CD with damian marley for anyone to care. i agree with you on the new wiz stans. that fool turnt pop real fuckin’ quick. KUSH X ORANGE JUICE is one of my favorite tapes to burn to, but that roll up shit is exactly that. shit
joey def said the truth. i think the internet makes it difficult for hip hop or any other genre nowadays to become successful. but it is true that many ppl don’t even try to learn the history of hip hop including (including myself in many ways). i also think that the “underground” hip hop heads are the ones always bitching and complaining about their favorite artist selling out when they never even dropped a couple dollars on buying their album. So even though i don’t support an artist sacrificing their creativity, i can understand why they would gear their music toward fans that actually give a shit about them enough to buy a cd. So then it becomes less fun and more of a job and they start going thru the motions (ie nelly, jay-z, etc)
@fact you hit it right on the head.
another thing, in regards to lupe and lasers.
hip-hop (AS A WHOLE) doesn’t have the rebel mentality it once did.
I’ve just started listening to Odd Future, and they have it.
PacDiv has it,
a lot of new rappers have it.
Charles hamilton had/has it (say what you will about him in regards to his personal life and issues)
but a lot of them are doing this for the love of music.
Not the love of money.
I mean, saying, I gotta get food on the table is respectable.
and im sure many in other genre’s felt the same way.
But others did it out of love of the genre and or music in general.
another thing,
in regards to your average rappers, how big of a MUSIC fan do you think he/she is?
how many of you knew who arcade fire was before the kanye tweet?
On a musical level, hip hop is on the cusp of being on the outside and dont even recognize those (being other genres) on the inside who in many cases we sample from.
I mean think about it,
it may seem like nothing but I’ll spend money on a Pink Floyd Record >>>AND<<<< sample them because I genuinely like them not because the cover looked dope and I was crate digging and got lucky.
but thats just me.
@james I agree with most of that. But I wouldn’t hate on charles hamilton because of his personal life. just the terrible music he puts out
First off, cosign Valence on the dope convo, dope c-section comment.
After reading thru and digesting the comments, I would have to say that I feel we are as a fanbase quite fickle and that the majority of the fanbase aka mainstream is less savvy as Joe put it. but there’s so many levels to this argument idk where to begin…shake and meka, have u guys considered doin a 2dbz discussion/event about these kinda topics(on the EAST COAST plz)? that’d be greatness. I feel like a lot could be learned/discussed….and i kno about the BBQ, but i wouldn’t wanna bring down a fun event like that with a “dissertation of hip hop” type discussion lol.
Wait! Who is Slick Rick? Who is Rakim? Oh well let me bump this new shit that will eventually get old so I can move on to the new trend.
@hiphopfanscansuckmynutclosetcase
that’s on them homeboy. we can only listen to the music they put out. and I’m sure most people nowadays know about rakim. he was that guy on the watcher right? lol
My turn now… I would say some hip hop fans are definitely fickle… and hip hop has had a crazy evolution and like john said the internet has been a negative part of it… up until around 2003 or 2004, hip hop was progressing (in my opinion) in a good way. In the 80s, we were introduced to Grandmaster Flash, LL Cool J, N.W.A., Slick Rick, Run DMC, The Beastie Boys, Too $hort, KRS-One, Gangstarr and many more great acts… in the 90s, we were introduced to The Roots, Public Enemy, Cypress Hill, Outkast, Snoop Dogg, Xzibit, Redman, Scarface, Devin The Dude, Richie Rich, Andre Nickatina, The Pharcyde, Luniz, Mac Dre, Onyx, Tech N9ne, The Fugees, E-40, The Dogg Pound, 2Pac, Biggie, UGK, The Outlawz, DMX, Jay-Z, Bone Thugs N-Harmony, Wu-Tang Clan, Busta Rhymes, Twista, NaS, Eminem, Lil Wayne (Look up Back That Azz Up) 50 Cent technically (Life’s On a Line circa 1999) and even more (too many to name)… from 2000-2003 we were introduced to T.I., Ludacris, Petey Pablo, Shawnna, Young Buck, Lloyd Banks, Kanye West, The Clipse, Mike Shinoda (though his Fort Minor project didn’t come out til 05), Fabolous, Chingy, Nelly and Obie Trice… all of these dudes have made great music over the years because they could either make a good club hit witout trashy ass autotune and no wannabe techno shit or spit dope content on dope beats… whether it’s baisc boom-bap, Kanye prod., Lil Jon prod. or whatever… as for 2004-now, besides The Game, Lupe Fiasco, Kendrick Lamar, J.Cole, Yelawolf, Young jeezy, Bishop Lamont, Stat Quo, Joell, Big Sean, Cyhi, Ca$his, Ya Boy, Young De Bobby Creek and SOME Wiz Khalifa, most rappers and MC’s nowadays are garbage because they constantly make club hits and don’t have any lyrical content, and when they do it’s either wack flows on lame beats or a poser trying to be a thug… I blame the label execs for thinking “Since shit like Limewire and torrent sites keep leaking our music for free we gotta make out rappers make constant club hits that people will hear on the radio and buy asap….” the formula for SINGLES has worked because the people who don’t want to hear a dude rapping about life usually love party music… Lil Wayne or Snoop (Maybe none of the above) made the switch first and went from rapping about gangsta shit primarily and mostly made music for the hoes all day…. 50 Cent did not originate the radio rapper… all of his albums only had 3-4 club bangers on a CD with 13+ tracks… (correct me if I’m wrong). Hip Hop albums are disasters now… half of a rapper’s album is club banging shit now and maybe one or two tracks on the album are lyrical to a 13 year old… Recovery and a few other albums as of recent don’t fall in that category but the majority of rap albums nowadays=fail. There’s my 2 cents. i’m done.
YES
hip hop, as everything else, is evolving. and its funny how ppl love to find things to hate on. this generation of hip hop WILL be the greatest yet. with the progession of the internet and independent promotion, we are free to decided whos hot by simply downloading a mixtape and checking it out, rather than labels putting out artists and radio stations telling us whats hot. also the REAL ARTISTS will emerge because they dont have to compromise their artistic ideas for the satisfaction of the labels. and further more, young rappers ALL talk about the same thing: smoking weed, partying, fucking bitches and having fun. that hasnt changed since too short, nwa, snoop, and now we have the waka flockas and gucci manes. STOP hating on the new school. like there arnt any “flower rappers”(thats what icall them) like common, lauryn hill, mos def, now days. theres artists like lupe, jcole, wale and more. ido agree that albums arnt ALBUMS anymore. but that is a result of greedy labels trying to put out as many radio singles as they can.
Like so many people on here have said already, its hard to respect the history of a genre when its own current artist’s know nothing of the past or where it came from. Further more there is a level of disrespect for the older cats and how there shit is “Weak” or “Stupid” When the reality of it all is that the older cats were rhym’n about what was going on at that point and time. I have been a music promoter for over 10 years and I have had the opportunity to work with many of the old school rappers. Rappers I grew up listening to, Too Short, The Wu, Black Sheep, Coolio, Das FX, Slick Rick…..The list goes on and on, A true hip hop head will acknowledge the past, present and future of the genre, If you want to change the mindset of the “Fickle fan” Start teaching them the importance of the history. I make list for my students, lists of songs that they need to listen to over the weekend. We discuss the music and its importance and its relevance to current events, and the past. Music lovers be they; hip hop fans, rock fans, country, can be taught and therefore learn to love its past. Hip Hop is so universal now days and in every aspect of society, that even people who do not listen to hip hop, know who certain artists are or even listen to the pop station in the city they live in, but that does not make them fans. In fact most people who listen to the top 40 radio stations, don’t know a thing about music to begin with, they just listen to whatever is provided by the major record labels and the machine, It is unfair to label these people as “fans of Hip Hop” they are merely buying into what they are told is current and hot for the time being. In a year from now that audience won’t even remember what it was they were listening to today, Thats a fact. The Internet also plays such an avid roll in the musical climate these days as well and with so much music being presented to them, its no wonder they can’t keep up. I read a healthy amount of musical blogs every day and its hard for me to keep it all together. Music Is a beautiful thing and we should all just cherish whatever it is that inspires us.
well if u dont like hip hop nor respect hip hop then u can just geit out…
as much as i would love to disagree with joey, he does make very strong points, but again we need to differentiate between hip hop fans and “hip hop fans” if you have no respect for the old school u need to stfu. hip hop has become extremely mainstream and unfortunaly has borrowed from the mainstream some of its worst habits, one hit wonders, over glorification, we have artist that are talking about “the streets” when they have been living in mansions for years, and spend most of thier time either on a tour bus or the studio.
alot of people rap for money, not for the love of the craft.
anyway i dont really have a point to make.
Great comments…I hope I don’t mention anything already said.
The fickle-mindedness all boils down to the people pushing the culture. Internet, magazines, TV, radio are all outlets that can be used to push hip hop to the masses. I’ve mentioned this so many times, in so many discussions like this, with the same answers. There is NO BALANCE. Fickle hip hop fans, or even fickle music fans have no balance in their taste in music. Yet, it have nothing to do with individual fans, but more with the fickle people RUNNING the media outlets. When you have radio stations killing rap programs and turning into Top 40 stations, they manipulate the fans thinking on what’s hot and what’s not. It’s all money. They know they can play Waka Flocka, Blu, Talib Kweli, Drake, and other rappers on radio at the same time, but the heads at these radio stations and TV networks aren’t balanced themselves; they are fickle fans as well. When you have fickle higher ups, then you have bias. It’s no longer a leveled playing field for all different types of hip hop.
With that said, this have segregated real hip hop fans from casual listeners. There isn’t many actual hip hop enthusiasts left; ones who likes hip hop from all decades up until now, not saying what era was better, but more on a tip where they enjoy all types of hip hop no matter how old or new. Hip Hop listeners today are casual listeners who are shaped and molded by the radio and the Internet. Casual listeners are the ones who “likes” hip hop, but wouldn’t go and research themselves what the genre consist of; they like whatever hip hop on TV, radio or blogs because they push what’s “hot”, what’s “now”, all with little effort. They don’t give a f*** about the culture, because to them it’s “all about the music”, thus showing fickled-mindedness and bias to a culture bigger than mainstream media outlets.
Then, you have fickle “underground” heads. They don’t help either. They call whatever mainstream wack, and they celebrate the obscure because of prideful selfishness of finding something nobody knows about. Being an underground head is super egotistical; it feeds their ego knowing that listening to the “real hip hop” sh** makes them even more real…realer than casual listeners and mainstream artists themselves. Yet, they fail to recognize that hip hop always translated the streets to commercialism. I don’t listen to Soulja Boy because I like skilled hip hop, but what he is doing is synonymous to what Will Smith did with hip hop, and Will was f***ing with Public Enemy, Run-DMC, and other harder rap artists. Underground heads don’t know the history though, and because of their fickle-mindedness, they think real hip hop is Immortal Technique and Vinnie Paz, not knowing hip hop WAS THE PARTY when it started, and evolved into something that shows a plethora of style and art from many different people from the hood.
2 Things! First is Get them 2 Chicks out of the debate! 90% of females definitely don’t know what they are talkin about when it comes to hip hop, the other chick was cooh cuz she basically kept quiet and agreed with Joey.
And Second, Joey is pretty dead on. Damn shame.
Tay< lol. pretty ignorant, the girls came with valid points. n joey did most of the speaking out of the men..at least the girls had opinions.
Yes!!! if i could pull up my blog post from five years ago, It would show that I’ve been saying this for years!! Rap fans are the most fickle and the most “listen for the moment” fans on the planet. I’m am 25 and I’ve been a hip hop fan for ever and other genres too but I’ve never been able to exlpain why fans would like someone one day and then the next thing you know he\she cant stand this particular person because of some frivolus reasoning. I think it has to do with artist not being any good or lacking true depth as an artist, they get signed put out the best single they have and the rest of their debut sucks and subsequently so does the majority of there future songs so people give up on them and then ppl dont give certain musicians a chance, like the roots, like talib and others but most importantly its the fans who drive the industry, in the new jay\em\dre\50\cashis\? song “syllables” jay spoke on this and hes so right. If you hate the music thats out right now, blame your little sister and her friends.
Joe Budden Just Said the realest shit ever. I couldn’t agree with him more. I’m 19 and I’m looking at the average hip hop fans around me and their stupidity and thinking there is no way hip hop will ever get to where it used to be nor will it ever reach the level of rock and roll or pop culture. It lacks substance first off… When you got niggas out here singing about toot it and boot it and fokes calling it hip hop it’s a problem. All these jingle catchy lollipop ass rappers out here and barely anybody spitting real shit. Then you got rappers that started off with small fan bases spitting real shit and then hit mainstream and the music just goes down the toilet it’s just a slap in the face… but you can’t get mad at the artist. He just out here tryna make money and he knows and the labels know whats gonna appeal to the dumb ass listeners.
cosign EVERYTHING budden said. these others sound ignorant, from comparing hip hop to rock…WTF? is that the only genre you can compare. smh.
also, valerie sounds stupid. Hands down. *kanyeshrugs*
Also another thing why do cats excuse this bs with “oh they feeding they fam so u can’t hate” Man fuck that isht If you put chemicals into a corn field to make the corn grown faster yeah u’ll get it quick but the the soil is forever tarnished. This is supposed to be ART ok creativity, innovation ect… Don’t give me a McDonald’s system and justify it with over a billion served. And let’s get one thing strait to all the cats talking “evolution” GTFOHWTBSMF u gonna tell me waka flocka is an evolution of Outkast? Please do people know the definition of evolution?
A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
Most muthafuckas who get into this is for 3 things Money, Fame and Pussy and if they ever could get it without touching a mic trust me they would. Oh not to mention look what that isht did to R&B too.
Joe Budden hit the nail on the head right in the beginning of this video. Hip-Hop fas today are ignorant and the word he is looking is not stupid but simple minded. Fans today get hype over one creative lil wayne punchline where artists like nas and common had whole songs that were creative (ex. I Used To Love Her, Rewind). I feel like todays breed of fan can listen to a hip-hop song that has a whole concept behind it because they are just listening for punchlines so when those punchlines dont come they write that song off as being wack.
Hip Hop fans are just like any other fans…consumers. There’s a bigger culture of competition in hip-hop (started by the artists) And as someone mentioned…a sudden rush for productivity.
Overall, good music itself will live on and maybe the general public is just looking for great music regardless of the genre (Example: B.O.B. “Nothin’ On You”..a timeless joint)
… To An artist like Joe Budden… people grow up and might not want to jam to the same message…make timeless joints or keep the “real hip-hop” going.
Hip hop is the ultimate “what have you done for me lately” industry. Yeah as a hip hop head Im all about one artist one minute and may change my mind completely in a couple weeks. But that is because the music changes. If the music is dope im gonna listen, but if it lacks, Im not going to waste my time when I could be listening to something way better. New music is dropping everyday in hip hop, so if you want to keep a fan base, then you better put out dope shit every time.
Fans also have to realize that rappers in the industry are human beings. There has never been a artist in the history of rap to come dope with every single song they do. If they have 40 songs out some of them wont be as good as others thats just the way it is. So if you hear 10 dope songs back to back then you hear one thats not your taste stop turning on that artist like you dont remember the other 10 songs you liked.
these broads using jay-z’s name and COMPLETELY forget about greats like Outkast and Scarface. Busta Rhymes……artists that came BEFORE Jay-Z.
Joe Budden is dead on with his assessment of TODAY’S hip hop fans; and by TODAY’S hip hop fans, i mean youngsters who were born after 1990. They all have this “what have you done for me lately” mentality. Couple that fact with digital downloads and we now have a recipe for the devaluation of lyrical content and great albums. Artists have to focus on making hit RECORDS rather than making CLASSIC ALBUMS.
this is a bunch of bullshit. how can rap stars and hip-hop bloggers say somthing like that?
it is true that that is a lot of wack shit going on in hip-hop, but you can’t really call a gcci mane fan a hip-hop fan. a hip-hop fan is way more than that.
I personally think that hip-hop fans are the most open-minded, smart and revolutionary music fans. fuck what you say. this is what I think, just because it’s what I’ve seen and what I’ve experienced over the years
Budden ain’t lying. when it comes to rap, the general population is attracted my ignorance and are simple-minded when it comes to lyrics. main reason why Wayne is the “Number One Rapper”. fuck the bullshit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntdW3Br-yQs&feature=channel_video_title
I do believe Hip Hop fans are quite fickle and are less savvy than other genre’s fan bases because lot of fans are very ignorant and naive to the art form and history of Hip Hop music. And they do tend to turn their backs on artists rather quickly. One rebuttal I heard to that is there is so many artist and music that comes out on a regular basis that some artists cant risk putting out bullshit. And another thing I heard that I wanna speak on is I love conscientious and lyrical Hip Hop as much as the next guy, but I feel we need both that and this mainstream stuff though. Reason being that we all like to go out and party and have fun and umm I dont know if you are aware or not but alot of that lyrical shit is hard to dance to like try having a family barbecue playing MF Doom, wouldnt be right. So we need to find a balance but also these dudes need to know there place or start making more conscientious music [ie Soulja Boy] if you wanna be the best rapper alive, you can make a ”Pretty Boy Swag” [stretching it] but then you’ll need to make 10 ”What More Can I Say” joints. And also the underground/mainstream thing when people abandon their fav rappers once they get the notoriety they deserved is kinda like this well for me at least I dont abandon anybody 1st off, I’ll always follow em but they usually conform their music to a more mainstream sound which I dont like. Maybe its the labels forcing them to put out a certain product and hindering their creativity to make this generic sound that for some reason they think we like *insert wtf face*
I know I’m late on this topic I agree with everything Joe Budden is saying. It’s exactly where the fans are coming from that makes us like this. In the hood, gang members don’t know, for the most part, why the gang started in the first place and their goals where and still are. Most people who rep their neighborhoods till the death know little or absolutely no history about their area. With these attitudes, our fans have NO respect for the older rappers, producers, and DJ’s who put us at where we are and don’t even know who DJ Kool Herc is (known as the founder of Hip-Hop).
I’m 17, and I know what I’m talking about seeing how most people my age don’t know anything about the history of Hip-Hop. It’s our own faults why we are like this and it will not change. Nobody is making a effort to change that so it will stay the same until people actually go out educating people about Hip-Hop before the genre dies due to its own self-destruction of it’s unloyal, uneducated, and fickle fans.
– Johnny Ciphe
http://twitter.com/JohnnyCiphe
joe budden is a smart muthafucka b, agree with everything he said.
Joe Budden is speaking the truth