Or is it all about gimmicks? Serius Jones, Lowkey, Valerie and Glenny discuss the topic at hand; and y’all can do the same in the c-section below.
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1970-1996 = skill, 1996-present gimmicks, But skill is returning we got many skilled rappers coming up
well waka flaka got famous, so you tell me….
skills matter to hip hop listeners, not to pophop yadayada teenys and the dancin floor whores
unfortunately sales depict talent and popularity in the eyes of many senseless folk; further promoting the garbage that is pink and that trash you here on t-f-saturday in the bars
THis shit is real B ! Too much buffoonery in Hiphop.
kind of, people are mostly attracted to catchy music (the radio) most of which requires no talent, most rappers talk about weed money n bitches, but only a select few can make it sound dope, overall you need some sort of talent to do this but not really these days
At the end it sounds like Lowkey perfectly described Eminem. Gave us a lot of in-depth stories about his mom and whatnot, put her out there so we felt we connected … but still was technically gifted and earned the respect of hip-hop listeners that way as well.
Ummm Waka Flacka, Gucci Mane, Nicki, Soulja Boy, Every Otha Group That Came Out With A Dance Song, The Rest Of The YM Camp. Nahh skills dnt mean shit anymore for MAINSTREAM acts (98% of the acts)
But underground artist bringin hip hop in the skills back with J. Cole, Kendrick Lamar, Blu, Jay Elec, Pac Div, Big Sean, Cyhi, Asher Roth, Ghostwridah, Curren$y and etc. Only a few mainstream artist have skill LUPE FIASCO, Kanye, Common etc
In Nicki Minaj’s case, it’s all about gimmicks
serious was right. As a consumer/fan i’m concerned about the artist-their personal issues come second. I wouldn’t call it “selling their soul” though. Selling your soul would basically be fake 100% and have compromised who you are. Great disscussion. need more like it. #spreadthesoup
There’s never been a more watered-down time in Rap, but Hip Hop artists in a sense have always relied on “gimmicks”. More specifically, rappers have always needed some kind of a niche, or a draw, or a point of interest to garner attention. Think back to Afrika Bam & Zulu Nation, or the Furious 5.
I agree with what Glenny said (you’re beautiful, baby), the word “gimmick” is a bit unfitting. But even in the so-called golden era, there were these images that corresponded only with certain artists; Ice-T never wore no African medallions, X-Clan never got into rockin poke a dots, Nas didn’t do g-funk….everybody had their lane, whether they shared it with other artists or not. But these days everybody’s got a whole potpourri of fuckin styles. They need a chick song, a club anthem, some dirty south shit, a sensitive song…nobody’s really like, ‘that shit just isn’t my lane’.
Getting back to the whole “gimmick” misnomer (Glenny, have my babies srsly), it’s more just a lack of originality that’s plaguing hiphop. There’s limited subject matter, limited styles, and limited avenues for presenting music. And the bottom line is 80% of artists over-saturating the market and internet with their bullshit shouldn’t even be rapping in the first place.
Glenny, I wanna wife you. Just think about it.
Victoria Shanell=Dope lol
Skill has never mattered in Hip-Hop. Denying this is pure ignorance.
yes and no. throughout history there have been plenty of rappers who had lackluster skill but are still considered great because they had a great gimmick. so lets not act like not having skills and making it big is something new
I don’t know about gimmicks. But its definitely trendy. Always has been though.
im just here to comment on how fine that azn is..
B.o.B said it the best: “Every single song is the same old track about patron and swag.”
I don’t think that rappers like Gucci Mane and Waka should be considered hip-hop. Maybe hip-pop, dance music or gibberish or up-tempo beats.
wondering why my comment was removed… perhaps it was the profanity.. perhaps it was the links.. idk.. but I’m going to repost it without the profanity and without the links and see if yall keep me up…
I think they need to be a little more careful with the words that they’re using. “To sell one’s soul” has many negative connotations; makes one conjure up images of an individual degrading one’s self for money, denying his/her religious beliefs for fame, etc. In watching this video, I’m HOPING dude don’t mean “he’ll sell his soul a lil bit” in that way lol. I think what he’s saying is “I’ll be a little more vulnerable” or “I’ll allow you into my life a little more than what I might normally do” etc…
But I feel what they’re saying. It’s not about skills anymore. But, that’s not just in hip-hop; that’s in all sectors of entertainment. You don’t have to be a writer to get a book deal; all you have to do is f*ck some n*ggas. You don’t have to be an actress to get a television show; all you gotta do is f*ck some n*ggas. You don’t have to be able to sing to sell a million copies of an itune;all you got to do is be willing to degrade yourself. Degradation seems to be the new hustle.. smh at this damn society..
Someone on my fb page asked me what “gimmick” was and this is my response:
I think gimmick is pretty much marketing stunts. Everybody does it in all sectors of business and life. But, I think many people want to keep hip-hop as that “real life” music from the soul type shit; you know, like, we’re just su…pposed to vibe with an artist bc a) he’s talented and b) because he’s just real and you feel him. Unfortunately, I think we passed that era. Everything, esp in the age of technology, is about marketing and promoting an image. Individuals in society don’t get “friends” by being cool, real, etc; we get “friends” by marketing a certain image. How can we expect artist to do something different when they are, at the beginning and end of the day, just like us?
If you want to hear more on the topic of fame, success, and degradation in 2010, go check out my youtube videos entitled: “The Disturbing Case of Antoine Dodson”, “What’s wrong with the world we live in?: Karen Owen’s ‘Sex Thesis;” and “Atalanta 2010″..
What a lame question. Of course not.
“it’s more just a lack of originality that’s plaguing hiphop. There’s limited subject matter, limited styles, and limited avenues for presenting music. And the bottom line is 80% of artists over-saturating the market and internet with their bullshit shouldn’t even be rapping in the first place.”
—————————-
This !!
Skill definitely still matters in hip-hop. Underground artists have nothing if they don’t have skill. And if those same underground artist make it mainstream, it’s a whole other set of skills to take what makes them the artist they are and give it a more pop sound. B.o.B. for example, has always been able to craft a good song. Only recently, however, did he find a way to still make the music he wants to make, but with more mass appeal. Ya’ll call it selling out, but if every rapper could do it, I promise you they would.
I would say that to a certain degree there has always been gimmicks in hip hop. A gimmick can be all to way to a novelty group the the “Afros” in early 90′s to fake gangster rappers like “Boss”. There were even cool gimmicks like the Humpty Hump caracter created by Digital Underground. I might even say there are less gimmicks nowadays because you have less record label control. To a large extent the record labels would be the ones forcing artists to sound a certain way and with that system less prominate artist can be more themselves.
The one thing I would say is that there is less gimicks today but more biting in hip hop now then compared to the past. Me personally I actually perfer a gimmick over biting. You can have an original gimmick that is dope such as Humpty Hump, but biting is wack no matter what.
You could also aurgue that because of todays internet era, where there are fiftly eleven emcees coming out every single day, it forces artists to be doper and fresher to get noticed.
Just my thoughts.
What’s up Victoria, I love what you said. I’m potentially spoken for, but if this whole thing with Glenny falls through, I’ll holla.
This kinda brought it to my mind that this is why Odd Future are becoming as big as they are. In my opinion, Tyler and Earl are the only skilled ones, but the fact that they’re teenagers rapping about rape and murder and shit counts as a gimmick to me, considering these are things they’ve never done(I’m positive they haven’t done them). People are hearing about kids rapping about taboo subjects over Neptunes-esque beats and need to spread it around. I like them though.
I just finished watching your “She’s Single” video btw, and you made some very valid points. Your chances of carrying my unborn just shot up considerably.
@George Clooney… lmao.. you’re crazy! I appreciate the love tho. Thanks for checking out my work!
Rap now is a circus of clowns.If you want to listen to gimmicky rappers like nikki and the pathetic wacka flockas,then you have a sea of that all over the radio.However,if you looking for some skillful MC’s,then Nas,JayElect,Common,Mos Def,Blu,KRS,LUPE,Black Thought,Immortal technique,AZ,Rakaa,Ghostface,WU,eLZhi………….If you haven’t heard of any of these niggas,then bump that BURRRRRRRRRRRR music real hard.
Skills don’t matter in Hip-Hop now. It’s all about dance music n gimmicks. But it’s slowly getting back to it’s skills roots with artists/record labels like G.O.O.D. Music, Roc Nation, XV, Donnis, etc.
I think skills only matter to the fans that are really looking for something different & creative. I agree w/ everyone else who is saying the artists who are saturating the net & media with bullshit need to get the fuck out of the game & study some good acts.
wait… so there weren’t artists like waka flocka or solja boy in the “golden era?” like young mc, hammertime, etc? come on now yall are rediculous? and like @5%er said, Eminem, Outkast, Drake, Immortal technique, techn9ne, eLZhi, jay elect, jay cole, K-Dot… i cud go on so either the “golden age” is back or yall are just bullshittin and hatin cuz some artists can’t get recognized while others do.
skills do matter
do skills win all the time ? no
also, lets get real. hip hop is more mainstream now (even tho it is mostly underground compared to other pop musics like country and dance, etc) and has to accomodate with the masses where as before it was just in a few communities. Also 98% of hip hop is still underground. there ppl all over the place recording songs in their garage and shit. This culture is still WAY below the surface
hiphop probablly is the most gimicky genre out there at the moment, and it has respected on black people, sadly thats were most people get images of “us” and due to the high ratio of gimmicks people start beliving it,i think the problem is never has a culture been so closely linked to thier music and seen majorly by the public thru thier music, huuuuge cultural sterotypes are comin majorly from the entertainment industry n most notably music.
but thank God for the internet cos now you can choose which “gimmick” u wanna c.
*reflected on black people *not “repsected”
@hmmop it’s like people have selective memories and forget about the scrub artist from that time. No way you’re going to tell me that every hiphop artist out of the golden era was just lyrics and no gimmicks.
Here is the problem,
Hip Hop used to be a niche. Hiphop heads have high standards for music. Then, Hip hop became POP MUSIC, and now there are MILLIONS of dumb and undiscerning newbs listening to hip hop who don’t have any STANDARDS of QUALITY.
So skill does matter to people who actually CARE, but skill does not matter to POP MUSIC listeners.
@stinkmeaner exactly. there are much more that do care about good hip hop music than radio music. this site proves it. those same ppl who don’t care about quality hip hop don’t care about quality music in general. ppl today complain about real rappers not makning it big when in actuality there has never been a point in time when rappers got super rich except for now. jay-z said in an interview that during the process of reasonable doubt he was still hustlin to make money. he said most ppl laughed at hip hop artists because they made no money. Today, ppl bitch and complain about not getting the big shows when that’s how it has always been. but like i said, most rappers are still underground so to say the culture is diluded is a lie
@hmmop drake ain’t got skills he just rhyme bullshit with autotune!,but if you say joell ortiz,saigon those niggas have skills!
Wow! Great Comments! It’s nice to know that I’m not the only person who thinks this way!
@Capitan Rivera wrong ! @hmmop i agree
the 80′s and 90′s had gimmicks to
Neither skills nor gimmicks matter when it comes to commercial success.
It’s all about the producers and executives, and after that the amount of money your record label is willing to throw around for you.
Then again, whether commercial rap is hip hop or not is debatable.
The people who consume hip hop on a major level is kids 10 – 20 , they dont want to hear whats real because they want to escape reality threw the music. The labels have no choice but to sell the bullshit because they gotta pay bills. Real life is not a movie but people still enjoy big fake movies just like big fake music. Skills however do matter because sometimes one verse has more substance in it then some rappers whole album. Skills give your music a long life so your material can be played over and over for years. But the fake shit gives off a energy that produces sells , so its a battle between authenticity and fast money. You cant teach alot kids about complex issues because their minds arent built for that yet , all they care about is what makes them feel good. What artist need to do is find a way to put both together , substance within the energy of high school dance music. Which is hard to do because when your mind evolves so does your choice in musicality.
Also the music business , like any business at the end of the day comes down to hustle. If you got skills or a gimmick but you dont have hustle , your shit wont work. If you cant land in a city , do a show , take off and do the same in another city the next day , its gonna be hard for you to get your product off the ground.
I disagree w/ Glenny…she said “gimmick” isn’t the right word? a gimmick is some random bullshit that makes you stand out yet is totally unrelated to what you’re doing (nicki minaj’s random cartoon voice=major gimmick to compensate for her lyrical deficiency. waka flocka’s adlibs=another major gimmick to compensate for his bad lyrics.)
now here’s where i feel they’re wrong. they were talking about gimmicks as though anyone can use one and become famous. it isn’t that easy. nicki’s cartoon voice is something that very few people can use and use effectively. that takes skill. waka’s adlibs on the other hand don’t take skill (someone needs to do a study on waka flocka flame’s music because that shit gets people of all ages and backgrounds in the mood to fucking overthrow the whole government. but i digress)
there are only a few rappers who don’t need gimmicks because they have the power to make you feel them solely on their lyrical content and delivery (jay z, biggie, tupac, lupe, Blu, mos def, talib kweli, common, etc.)
gimmicks aren’t necessarily a bad thing, but if you look closely, the greatest rappers don’t use/need gimmicks.
@Captain Rivera ppl weren’t talking shit on drake till he got famous. before that everybody thought he was cool. that makes no sense
Z-RO THE REALEST RAPPER IN THE GAME
we still asking this dumbass question?
gimmicks =/= having character
why can’t we just support artist that we like and stop complaining…the best artists will last over time
Lowkey basically summed it all up, but that’s only the case for the successful rappers whose been around for a long time. The rest of these cats are irrelevant or new to the game. (most just follow trends) And rap artist who make dance records/club records aren’t gimmicks, they just make dance music/club songs.
Interesting conversation to have this year.
But I cosign @James on this. Its that simple.
It matters. Is anyone ENFORCING the shit? In the industry? No.
Not blame the music industry?
these are the clowns in control & dumbing you down
with this bullshit music. its not the artist ITS THE INDUSTRY. Why do you think its the same 5 songs on the radio or the same type of lyrics for how many years now? BE REAL!
You know who wins in this though.
Atmosphere
no gimmick, no putting them on blast, and yet they have followers for days
Gimmicks sell records and make you money in a lot of the cases, the opposite is true for skill, but when you manage to do something real, unique and with amazing skill AND sell records at the same time then you know you’ve found the magic pathway.
Most people either stay true to what they do and stay underground or completely sell their souls for money but some manage to stay true and make money, just not that many.
its only time til they turn there backs on J.COLE like they did DRAKE!
ALL GENRES ARE GIMMICKY!!! PEOPLE IN HIPHOP JUST TO WORRIED BOUT THE STATE OF HIPHOP THAT NOW THINGS ARE GIMMICKY.
AND JUST CUZ NICKI MAKE POP SONGS, DOESNT MEAN SHE DONT HAVE SKILL.
All artists, regardless of genre, vary in terms of vocal/lyrical ability, charisma, personality, etc. All of these things matter to the fans when they’re trying to decide who gets their money and attention. For example: Nicki Minaj might be a flake, but there’s no denying she can rap and (kind of) sing, AND she’s got mad showmanship. Get past the corny accents, and you’ll see why she’s a superstar in the making.
too many haters when it comes to hip-hop and R&B… you don’t see this type of debate goin on with other kinds of music. Just like who you like, and ignore who you don’t like.
Hip Hop has always been a balance of skills and gimmicks. Sugarhill Gang? Basically a gimmick. MC Hammer? Gimmick. MF Doom with a mask? Gimmick. Just about every artist has a gimmick, whether or not that gimmick can be considered demeaning or credible is up to you to decide. Remember there has always been good music and bad music at every level of every era. Back in the early 90′s cheesy dance moves and catchy hooks also sold records. In time you forget this and just remember the likes of Illmatic, Wu-Tang, BCC etc. So in time we’ll forget Waka Flocka Flame, Soulja Boy and whoever and just remember the music we enjoyed.
Skills still matter but in today’s market it isn’t really necessary. As much as y’all talk, fans as much as they used to. I don’t give a fuck about Jay-Z’s marriage, it’s all about what he presents on the mic. The difference between the early generations and now is that it’s too blatant !! With the emergence of the Internet, you can see it coming a mile away. Don’t get it wrong, Hip Hop been mainstream with the likes of Nas, Big, 2Pac. It’s not the person that’s mainstream, it’s what you’re talking about. It’s always been easy to call out the rapper you don’t like as being a sellout but if you and the rest of the world aren’t buying their shit, they’re not as popular then….right ?
hip hop is dead.. and if u dont believe me listen to any lil wayne song
Skills does matter but you need balance. What truly makes an MC great is the ability to have skill but still be able to have commercial appeal on a whim. Look at artists like Jay-Z, Eminem, Kanye. Back in the day look at Mos Def with Ms. Fat Booty. Even somewhat current songs like Successful or Empire State of Mind. If you can balance skill with commercial, you can do amazing things in HipHop. I really dont care to bash artists anymore, because with all the wack music out there, the ones with skill should definitely stand out. That’s I’ve been doing these past few months. Instead of critiquing all the time, I plot on using the wack cats as stepping stones. Skills matter, just have a balance.
today’s generation of hip hop is gimmicky. ima b str8 up! ain’t none of these rappers in dis game i can really sit back n talk about years later like i could with the Golden Age emcees. its so easy to fool consumers now even if u ain’t lived wut u rap about. jus makin it sound real would win em over. ppl try to rep they lifestyle so hard n they stories jus doesn’t add up at times! they rather brag about it then tell a sensible side of thangs! major labels back in the day would neva even ATTEMPT to give artists like Waka Flocka exposure. majors is givin the wrong artists exposure! i mean when u listen to a hip hop album u suppose to git more then jus a buncha hit songs on dere. u suppose to git real experience and social commentary. shit is all fucked up
Who says it doesn’t take skill to push some of these gimmicks? Not only that, if you’re talking about sales, nobody wants to buy a record from someone who is all technicality rap. Music is listened to for enjoyment. However if you take enjoyment in the “skill” (although skill is, like I said, an ambiguous term) someone presents, then skill will matter to you.
what a waste of time.
yall should do a series on some shit like this. the video is nice and it opens up for real discussion in the c-section. a series wld be dope af
@eSo. I agree with you.
Serious Jones should listen to “Runaway” by Kanye West. I got a plan for his dick ass…runaway. Then say that you beat CH again. Hahaha. And try to make attacks at him again. You know you lost twice. Now your just being a dick, asshole, jerk off. haha Runaway…..just runaway
The only way that just having skills can get you into hip hop is if you have big name cosigns. If you don’t have that, then you’re fucked if you don’t have a gimmick.
the reason why i say skills don’t matter as much as they use to is because… you COULD balance lyrical skills with commercial appeal and be successful, but you could also have no skills and all commercial appeal and be more successful. soulja boy said it himself on angela yee… “when i decided to actually talk about something on my second album, nobody didn’t give a fuck and i didn’t sell, but on my first album i talked about nothing and i went platinum”. nuff said…