A few weeks ago, a “controversy” was sparked when Jay Electronica addressed some comments RZA made regarding the South in an interview, which honestly, I did not watch in it’s entirety. Things quickly escalated and could have gotten much worse, but being that Jay Electronica is a civilized individual, along with RZA, things simmered down. After hearing / reading both sides, I can now understand where each party is coming from. Both kicked knowledge and wisdom, and with that comes understanding. Peace to the Gods.
“I know I said a few things about the South throughout my career in different periods,” RZA told Sway. “I don’t know the exact comment, but I remember I did an article in Rap Pages years ago, ’cause me and Master P had a talk about this years ago. I was speaking on the education level in the South, how brothers drop out … in the sixth grade — some of them because they have to go to work, some of them because of the poverty, some because they’re not interested in the education system … just a lot of crazy things that people from up North had evolved from. When I was doing this article, I was taking about my own family at first. My family comes from the South. They frying fat back in the kitchen, Grandpops didn’t have more than a sixth-grade reading level. My grandma was a welfare mom.”
Read the rest of the MTV interview here.
The south is to hip hop what the special olympics is to the olympics. Hate on that all you want but it’s the truth. Take 5 mc’s from NY vs 5 mc’s from the south and it would be a blood bath.
Jay Elect >
Sway just compared Jay Electronica to Drake & J. Cole…
&it’s kind of funny how RZA hasn’t heard Jay yet.
not really.
@Snagz
Bun B, Jay Elect., Andre 3000, (Mixtape) Lil Wayne, and Scarface.
Jay Z, Nas, Mos Def, Joe Budden (?), Jadakiss.
You couldn’t tell me both sides would take causalities in that battle. and I chose those emcees by who I could think of this second.
BlackStarr
http://chorpenning.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/1233928590_citizen-kane-clapping.gif
@BlackStarr
Actually, NY/NJ would be more like: Nas, Buddens, Raekwon, Joell Ortiz, Inspectah Deck.
East would slaughter South unless you replace Lil Wayne with a more talented south rapper.
put phonte in for wayne
@ Snagz
it depends on what standard youd use to judge the battle. if you talkin complex lyrics, north would probably win. if you talkin who got more money, itd be a tossup. if you talkin who got more swag, south wins. and finally, if you talkin, whod be more likely to become a breakthrough artist, south wins.
aight rza……..so u gotta judge da whole southern region’s education level based on wut ya grandma n grandpops went thru when dey wuz comin up????? i respect ya opinion but rxa shouldn’t judge da whole south like we dummies n shit. da east coast ain’t no fuckin Einstiens dey damn self!
J. Cole Jay Elect Andre3000 Big Krit Curren$y >
RZA act like every New York cat is a Rhodes Scholar who dropped out of MIT to sell drugs or rap. I know plenty of sharp South cats, and plenty of dumb East Coast ones. RZA sounded like a idiot for that one, yo.
Did y’all actually READ the entire interview, or just “excerpts”?
^
let’s not do this the south has a great underground scene and has since 86
but y’all wanna act like besides geto boys ugk outkast we r just HORRIBLE and wanna act like that’s all we got But y’all don’t wanna research shit.
That’s the problem
K rino > rza
Here some shit frm 93 Thats still dope today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkgKa1XXcwA&feature=youtube_gdata
K rino verbal excustion
are most of you serious??????? now im from ny so im not even gonna chime in u kno where i stand. BUT to me it just seems like there are alot more “ringtone rappers” in the south.
now what i mean by this is rappers who, instead of sittin down wit a pen and masterin a song wit each line better than the next (i.e nas, joell ortiz, AND jay elec.) a RINGTONE RAPPER will sing any words over a beat that will make dumb bitches move they ass. (i.e soulja boy, DRAKE, pitbull)
I read it and to me I find Rza alienating whatever southern fans he has. He says people in the south are less knowledgeable then their northern neighbors which is ridiculous. There is some very dope hip hop from the south like CunninLynguists, Cyne, Scarface, Killer Mike, Jay Elec, etc but he’s probably not up on this hip hop.
oh and one more thing
this is an arguement that noone will win. obviously there are dope niggas in ny and alot of whack ones in the south.
but everyone knows there are some dope niggas in the south and whack ones in the north
so dont even bother comin here sayin ur side the illest
go jets!
If you want rappers who talk about all the “lyrical” things they’ll do to you then enjoy the latest Joe Budden mixtape.
“I’ll butt rape you and slice your throat and pee on your face….VERBALLY.”
I mean jeez, it’s just an awful approach. Who uses phrases like “bloodbath?”
The simple truth is New York is not only getting owned from a commercial standpoint, but speaking in creative terms it’s been a one-sided arms race since Stankonia unless the north wants to claim Kanye West. You guys are insular, throwing out lame newcomers like Red Cafe and no one cares. New York hasn’t made one great, New York, pinnacle-of-rap album in several years.
The Isis Papers? … this dude is stupid. He don’t think we had black bookstores in the south? I probably read the Isis Papers before RZA. In 91 when I was at FAMU (yeah, Florida, in the south) .. it was the mecca for Black Psychologists. Fances Cress Welsing spoke there … Na’im Akabr from FLA … just usual Northern arrogance … SMH
Fuck rappers and their drama.
ey ramon, budden is from jersey and you arent allowed to associate that mental niggas emotional rap with new york, and fuck red cafe thats like me saying the south sucks cuz ur best new rapper is pill… find me something wrong with nas and joell ortiz and where they are getting “owned” and i will agree w. you
The south has nobody when it comes to hip hop in bulk that can compare to the east
Musically and business-wise
RZA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> J. Elec
what i dont understand is how the north tries to come at the south like its all garbage simply because the south is mainstream right now. the south is just what the mainstream wants. if the mainstream wanted the north, the north would be just as shitty as the mainstream south is. because mainstream rappers tend to be shitty.
now, dont get me wrong, there was a day when the mainstream valued diversity and complexity, but that day is over. and thats not even the souths fault. the south inherited that situation from east and west gangsta rap.
LOL somebody needs to tell RZA dudes drop out in the 6th grade up North too. Most of the niggaz he was hangin around didn’t finish HS i’m willing to bet.
“The south has nobody when it comes to hip hop in bulk that can compare to the east”
—————————————————————–
Scaface
Outkast
Goodie Mob
8-Ball & MJG
UGK
TI
Ludacris
Little Brother
J Cole
& there’s many more
GTFOH
^& Production Wise RZA can’t touch Organized Noise. Google them.
I wonder how many dudes in the Wu-Tang Clan and it’s affiliates have a high school diploma.
rza was a highschool dropout…………….. just saying.
Why is it when NY isnt doing there thing they act like everybody else is wack and not on the level? Sounds like the same shit the was saying about the West when it was poppin out there. But in the middle we stay calm we just drop bombs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well, no one is on NYs level overall, but of course theres dope shit everywhere… fuck, theres dope shit outta the USA even…
but if i hada pick one region to listen to it would easily be the east…
west/south/midwest/etc got just as ill artists but i would say not as much quantity wise, nah meen!?
Scaface
Outkast
Goodie Mob
8-Ball & MJG
UGK
TI
Ludacris
Little Brother
J Cole
& there’s many more
GTFOH
Those are all subpar artists. None of those artists are real lyricists, emcees, or hardcore hip hop artists. Scarface and Outkast get respect. The rest are kind of commercially recognized artists with no true attachment to the artistry.
When I talk real hip hop, I mean artists that sample instrumentation. Play instruments, create lyricism that capitvates intellectual thought. Progression, innovation, and the culture. The 5 elements, the essence of respect for the culture. Solid music for years.
Im not talking 8-Ball, Ludacris, guys who talk about Gucci and Patron in nearly every song.
I love discussing hip hop intellectually. Sometimes I get lost when guys just get angry. But lets open this thread to logical discussion.
Hip hop is ever changing. But the true essence is the 5 elements. None of the artists you named exemplify these things. There are a ton of european artists that will completely eat anything the south puts out. I mean its a global thing. I hate to say it but you guys are stuck in a commercial box.
Oh and the fact you left out Dead Prez from your southern list, well, that gives me the idea your probably not that into hip hop to be judging that the south is more important to the culture than east and west.
Overall, who cares where you come from. But undoutedly the southern movement has killed hip hop. Anyone who thinks that lyricism praised in the 90′s should be overshadowed by snap dancing, patron-gucci-loui obsessed lyrics, ignorant rap-influenced music is not a true hip hop head. Period. If you do like snap dance, and club tracks your probably more a pop-rap head, not a hip hop head.
Either way enjoy what you like. But just understand that the southern movement and A&R’s, and mainly rappers who sold their souls for a chain, mixed with miseducation caused this terrible lack of lyricism you hear on the radio. Even NY rappers followed trend to make money. Listen to underground artists who could be commercial and make money BUT REFUSE because they dont want to disrespect the culture, now thats sacrifice, thats real, THATS HIP HOP. And fortunately these type of emcees come from NY, LA, the South and everywhere, but they are predominately not in the south my friend. I am sorry.
UNXXXPEKTED <GTFOH. just face and kast?u obviously havent listened to a goodie mob album then. actually go youtube that stuff right now.
Unxpekted<there not predominant in the north either. be honest.
“Did y’all actually READ the entire interview, or just “excerpts”?”
@ KNOWxONE……i READ the entire interview…streets of ny got certain books of knowledge dat the south doesn’t have………..AND??????????? it could b certain books down here in the south dat contains sum knowledge just as powerful as the Isis Paper or Stolen Legacy (that exist in the streets of ny.) everybody is smart in they own way and every culture learns different in their own way! some school dropouts are smarter than graduates because a graduate can have so much book smarts that they can lack COMMON SENSE…..which is a major factor in life
Goodie Mob I have all their albums. Nothing you both said refutes what I stated. Mad at the truth?
PS using > < is not intellectually debating lol
Unxpekted<u think mob aint like outkast? lol. ok .
who cares we all know that SOME rappers from the south fckd up hiphop & Jay shud speak less & put out music…..
@UNXXXPEKTED I’m not even gonna call you ignorant just misinformed. U might wanna google those artists/groups i named & check their catalogs FROM THE BEGINNING. Yall the originators no doubt, but hip-hop is much bigger than just NYC.
who cares we all know that SOME rappers from the south fckd up hiphop
—————————————————————–
And Ron Browz & DJ Webstar breathed life back into it huh?? lol
GTFOH
Everybody points at snap-rap but when ny was Harlem shakin and chicken noodle soupin that was REAL hip hop? The only difference is when that shit was on 106 it never caught on, and the snap-rap did. I never seen anyone in Texas do an aunt Jackie, but I bet kids n NY was crankin that superman like a muh fugga. It all boils down to the same argument: once something becomes popular, it has to be bullshit. And while that is the case in many instances… In this situation it justifies NY rappers throwin shots bcuz there not popular at the moment. If YOUR dances caught on, NY would be home to the beginning and the end of hip hop.
@unxxxpected
homie, u need to recheck ur facts, or ur opinion. Little brother is the truest rap group, not only from those mentioned, but in the game period. Ur not ignorant and shit, just misinformed. Check them out fa sho!!!!!
why do you guy expect anything from UNXXXXPECTED… dude always posts hella ignorant shit all over the c-section. He is just on here to flame yall up.
Like Cee-Lo and my Nana said, “Its a time and place for everything”. Right now the South is representing Hip-Hop. Lil Wayne has done a lot for it. Soulja Boy might not be no lyrcist, but he never claimed to be. Let them boys do what they do. Meanwhile, we got our T.Is, we got our Andre 3000s, we got our Ludacris, we got our Bun B & Big Boi coming out the south.
Just like back when Mase was in that glittery ass outfit, and half the rappers were making an ass of themselves in shiny outfits – we got folks asking to “Turnt it Up”. Its all fun. Then at that time you had gritty shit like Onynx, and such.
Hip-Hop aint just being smart, conscious and stuff all the time. I mean, you ain’t always that way are you? Hip-Hop is for the people. And the music won’t get better ’til people get better. Yes, thats a Mos Def quote…
Now, Imma go listen to some Drake, Wayne, or something. Go somewhere and live life, and have some fun with it…then pop in that new Nas & Damian Marley, or that ol’ Midnight Marauders. Enjoy the music, or change the station. Its that simple.
>Ramon
Joe Budden is the best you could come up with…looks like you should take a page out your wack assbook and pump pump it up with your steez its weak and played out like clock radio speakers. Budden sucks slaughter houses dick just to be in the group. I’m wu tell I die and I be the northstar rep’n from the westcoast fuck the dumb shit protect ya neck zooooooooottt!
>Epinz
Word 2 Little Brother.
Unexpekted>Check other producers also mufucka. Start with Jay Dilla then fuck wit some Pete Rock Hi tek and Primo then take it back on up to 9th wonder and you’ll find some real nice rap catz. Subpar…. your life is subpar nigga.
Joell Ortiz is the same type of pseudo-hard rapper. He’s not especially interesting though I’ll give him credit for making some interesting tapes and songs: the Exhibit H track was cool, the classics tape was cool.
Nas is one of the top ten guys ever, no question, but simply put he hasn’t made a good album since 2001. He compromised his vision with Untitled, and moreover that album, save for the Jay Electronica intro and the Busta Fried Chicken Collab, sucked terribly.
And that’s sort of my point: New York is hanging onto its heavyweights as proof positive that the region matters. It does, because Jay is an A-list rapper with tons of number ones and, say, the Wu Tang disciples are still putting out solid albums (Cuban Linx II, Ghostdini and Blackout 2 were all really good). But that shit is just nostalgia.
The last serious rapper NY produced? 50 Cent? Juelz Santana?
I stand corrected about Budden, but he’s definitely a NY style rapper.
Lastly, anyone that used the phrase “REAL hip-hop” is part of the problem. The truth is anywhere in the US where there’s poverty, dissent and a bad side of town will produce the young man’s blues. Hell I’m from Austin, Texas and one of our local rappers made it to the finals of the World Rap Championships.
And how about the Swisha House camp circa 2000 when every member of the clique was wrecking Screw flows and individually got a record deal? Has that ever happened? Where one camp produces a handful of stars individually?
I dont think anything anybody said refutes what I said
NzaNecta you didnt even make sense, you named all east coast non-southern producers as a comeback, I am agreeing with you dumbass.
Ramon, I think your too hung up on the commercial scene. No one in the NY underground scene has considered the guys you named a force in the past 10 years.
Hands down COMMERCIALLY the south killed hip hop. If you think differently your an idiot and not a true hip hop head.
Little Brother? HAHA 100 bucks says I had the listening years before you even heard them so dont get on that tip. You cant compare that groups minimal success and amount of music to the amount of underground music supplied by quantity and quality from the east, particularly new york.
Overall as I said it doesnt matter where your from its about dope beats and dope rhymes.
And all Im saying is the south cant compare to the east and west when ti comes to that. Unless your in to that Gucci Mane garbage movement.
I think you can absolutely compare undergrounds if we’re just judging by skills: Sandman of Southbound, Big K.R.I.T., Jay Electronica, Chamillionaire when he made a triple-disc diss mixtape attacking Mike Jones, David Banner’s new work with 9th Wonder, G-Side, Lil Wayne in 2006 on the mixtape circuit. Gucci Mane on the mixtape circuit, though I’ve never made the effort to listen, is an immensely well respected force.
But yeah, you’re right, I’m too hung up on the commercial front, which is dominated by a combination of big Atlanta beats, leftover Houston styles and T. Pain’s influential use of Autotune.
Real quick: that stuff is sonically brilliant though. I’m a left brain, liberal arts degree guy so lyrics are my shit, but there’s no denying the hugeness of songs like “Buy U A Drank,” “Maybach Music” and all the Usher singles. When Lloyd Banks or Fabolous want a single, they dial up the south.
But bigger issue: what am I missing? What underground, current flock of rappers should I check for?
Again, region is a dying metric when we’re talking skills. Austin, Texas in the building:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr0SGHjlWks&feature=player_embedded#!
@Unxpektad
I understand your passion for hip hop. The true essence of hip hop but there are a lot of bit players responsible for the demise of good hip hop and it isn’t only the south but those who were representing it back in the early 80s-90s with the thug images, money, sexism, etc. Even Common rapped about it in “I use to love H.E.R”. Once hip hop went mainstream it was about the $$$$$$. Remember, we had the P diddy jiggy era, gangster rap(west coast,east coast,everywhere), Hip House, New Jack Swing/rap, even the Wu tang can be blamed for the grimey era. Hip hop wasn’t about being grimey, hard, gangster. It was about having fun in the early days. It was about battling but I never seen a battle rapper get all lyrical. It’s more about wits and outclassing your rival. The lyrical part didn’t come through until Rakim, Kool G Rap and others changed the game. It was about beat boxing, breaking, graffiti, djing, but all of that hasn’t been fully represented by any hip hop artists(only a few) since the mid 80s. Big Daddy Kane said on the Arsenio Hall show he wanted to get away from that part of hip hop and focus on his bullshit dance/new jack swing music/image. So in hindsight hip hop hasn’t been itself for the fuckin longest time. The few who are crying about it should be asking those who’s music they listen to why their music ain’t poppin. It’s because the consumer dictates who’s music is relevant and guess what. The kids don’t care about the lyrics no more. Anything that is catchy is what is in. We are in the ring-tone rapper era now. The south for the most part just happens to have the sound that the kiddies love. There are good south rappers who are making good music. Your clearly a NYC lyrical miracle rap fan but remember that if the lyrics don’t have any substance or real meaning behind them then they hold no weight. This is 2010, not 95 son.
@TrueSense – ill… – cosign
PEACE
how he gone call Jay Electronica a “kid” when this man is in his 30′s lol
Fellas give it up New York will never give props to anyone from anywhere else other then the northeast. Dont even argue with them they live in there own world.
@Truesense
I agree with everything you said except this.
“Your clearly a NYC lyrical miracle rap fan but remember that if the lyrics don’t have any substance or real meaning behind them then they hold no weight. This is 2010, not 95 son.”
So you respect no lyrics and content in 2010? You respect the fact that african americans look like retarted, ignorant slaves, with nothing on mind but boodys, drugs, and chains?
It doesnt matter what year it is. I hate that saying. Its all about good music with substance. Unfortunately the souther hip hop movement KILLED substance. Period.
… i say this shit all the time during these kind of arguments…. the east is just a starting point to hip hop… its not the end all of it….. shit HAS to go full circle….. like niggas was just supposed to let New York rap… and err’body else was just to sit and watch? FUCC THAT!!! just cuz they were the first to put rhymes to music and call it such… or really.. the first to put rhymes to music and get paid for it…. bacc in the day they were calling Blondie rap… and Run DMC was saying they were the kings of Rocc.. so what the fucc are you saying? certain shit is just inevitable…. if the shit succs so bad why is it popular? you think prince was talking shit on michael jaccson? when hasn’t the youth controlled the “scene”….. real spill? was it 30 year olds and up wanting to jam Kool G bacc in 87 or whenever the fucc he came out? hell naw.. it was some dumm ass rowdy teenagers to 20 somethings that were on it…. and now these niggas are 30+ years old talking bout how shit doesn’t sound the same anymore… no shit niggas.. things change…. we get older… some shit just aint gonna pop like it used to…..
… every fucc’n NY nigga that aint poppin.. or is true to the essence wouldn’t mind in the slightest if their favorite cut off their album sold 4343 billion fucc’n ring tones…. oh that nigga aint real now cuz he got some money? fucc’n monkeys… NY niggas are soooo fucc’n one dimensional… and the south acts like new york niggas did when they were poppin…. i’mma straight up midwest nigga who roccs to all kinds of shit…. i just let myself enjoy the music.. and take it for what it is….. i still know niggas who dont like “east coast” music just cuz pac said it bacc in 95…. like dumm nigga get real…. you fucc’n squares gotta get out ya box…. the machine is responsible for all kinds of bullshit….. soulja boy is a genius…. cuz he had fun with his music.. .and got dumm ass paid for it… and everybody is mad at him… he didn’t kill hip hop.. he put life bacc into it… niggas are good when they’re broke…. that willie lynch shit is real
“I DIED” THIS SONG IS SICKKKKKKKKKK! http://usershare.net/8ex5lowbc6iu REAL HEARTFELT HIP HOP.
IT BEGAN IN AFRICAN! WIKI THAT AND SHUT THAT aLL UP! TAKE THAT! P@W!