The three of the discuss argue about whose the best emcee. Biggie, Jay-Z or Nas LL Cool J, Rakim or Slick Rick.
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Aiiight, I think I’m officially not fuckin with Charles Hamilton off this one. Wow, his album better be nuts cause he sure does run his mouth a lot. I motion to make this a RAOF
lol fuck ll. krs is way better. i give ll props for his three hot albums but krs is nice and if they battled today, krs would rip his shit nicely cuz hes all about peace and uplifting and ll would be talking about fuckin some girl and putting whipped cream on her titties. stop it budden. Go charles
Never been a LL fan, i like Rakim (top 3 ever anyway) and KRS waaaaay better !
^^
He was talkin about LL in his prime, not LL now. Hell todays LL couldn’t beat the younger version of himself in a battle. Charles Hamilton just don’t know what he’s talkin about on this one cause he wasn’t around in those days
[...] post: Charles Hamilton x Joe Budden x Royce Da 5?9? (Video) Share and [...]
Charles Hamilton x Joe Budden x Royce Da 5?9? (Video) | AllHipHopdotcom said this on December 22nd, 2008 at 10:11 am
lol yeah…CH was suffering from “young nigga syndrome” right there…shitting on LL like his whole career’s been Exit 13s and shit…and I don’t even much like James Todd Smith like that. But Royce went unnoticed when he said the most important shit: You can’t put greats in order…especially considering if they came after one another because people are inspired by previous works. How you gonna rate a newer nigga over an older nigga (let’s say Jay Z over Rakim) when Jay Z grew up listening to his shit, and may have said “okay I’m gonna base my style off of this and improve upon it”. Students may be able to whoop the teacher down the road, but they are still the student.
I was gonna say some shit but instead i’ma just co-sign One Man Gang…
-RIDE
cosign rideout
cosign sloop…
Well damn…
cosign im da shiznit foo
LL is immortal, I agree with Charles with the names hes drooping but LL has survived and thrived for YEARSSS in this game. LL can drop a track tomorrow and even the young cats who dont follow hip hop like hip hop heads do will recognize.
LOL after watching this video again I have concluded CH is really too cocky for himself so early in his career. LOL @ how all the dope emcees (Royce, Joe, Joell) all just walk away in the middle of CH’s ridiculous rant
I grew up listening to LL!
My moms and pops used to mix tracks in the crib and shit.
LL was a lyrical beast back then Budden knows his shit. Idk much about KRS, but the shit I do know LL wins.
Even if you agree that Rakim is better than LL or whatever the argument is.. this is not a good look for CH lol
i cant give my 2 cent on this… didnt really get into the old heads… only slick rick tho… i dont really like KRS one right now.. but dont worry ill do my research when i get soem time
…and yeah i never really like LL.. and my pops got a big collection… so no LL for me
Yall Niggas Basin Yall Opinions Off Of SUCCESS….When It Comes To BARS…..Nahhhhh…LL Isnt Even Up There….Doesnt Matter How Long He’s Been In The Game…Or What He “Survived”…When It Comes Down To LYRICS He’s Not Up There
*N How Is Charles Cocky For Praisin ANOTHER RAPPER*
lol @ royce & his patron.
^^ I think the reason they are saying he’s cocky is because he’s talking to them as if they were the young niggas…or at least that’s how he comes off. I don’t call him cocky for it, but enh…
And really? We’re just gonna shit on LL’s lyrics though? Trust and believe, Rakim is my favorite amongst the ones mentioned in this vid, but he was a visionary with the shit…most everyone else’s “bars” back then don’t have shit on the standards of today’s “bars”…so c’mon man…
Even though it was a bitch made counter to a bitch made move by Canibus, LL came with it on that 4,3,2,1…he can spit, me hating his lovey dovey tune making ass or not is irrelevant…
And of course KRS has work, but how can you shit on LL and not shit on Slick Rick? If “BARS” is what we’re basing it on?
All that is is The Generation gap talking. Some have been there others haven’t to know the deal. I’ll be straight up, if ya’ll niggas is just judging LL off singles and shit, you can’t even have a convo with me. !! That tells me right there you’re too young. Peep the niggas catalog right here and now and then talk to me. Exit 13 is Hella better than you think if you haven’t listened to it.
c/s Curtis75Black…except on that Exit 13, only because I haven’t given it a spin lol
ole heads vs young heads
happens with me ALLLL THE TIME!
interesting little vid
charles hamilton is getting annoying.
Public Enemy, anyone?
Rakim > LL
KRS > LL
Though, LL is one of the greats, no doubt. But like onemangang said, you can’t compare the student and the teacher in that sense, because the student takes bits and pieces from the teacher. A younger cat would have to be on some other shit to surpass his teacher. Something new, something entirely his/her own.
I only 19 and from the bay area, ca and i know from a fact that Charles is not absolute in this decision. The most important thing that matters to the masses in hip-hop, is originality, and longevity. Those two words spell out LL Cool J. For a fact LL is not my fav rapper he’s in my top 10 but Joe, and reset of them made their points about LL.
Charles is right LL don’t make the list and he is also right that there is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAY IN THE WORLD YOU PUT LL COOL J B4 RAKIM!!!!
NOT EVEN CLOSE!
See, charles is looking at it like the Magazines and website niggas look at it, “LL is good but not better than the rappers we don’t hear anymore or have never heard truly in the 1st place because we were too young to understand”. If you were born in 85, you probably if your Mom let you listen to Hip Hop around 8-12. That’s Nas, Biggie, Snoop, Pac and Jay. LL to his credit was poppin’ the smoothed out Mr. Smith, with “Hey Lover, Doin it, Loungin Remix and I Shot ya remix” You basically missed out on 5 cd’s !! So him calling himself the G.O.A.T. to you is laughable because of his “lack of Hardcore” in your eyes. Niggas older know what’s up and I’ll be straight up he’s not the only one to call himself that. Big Daddy Kane on the track “How you get a record deal” off the Looks like a job for cd put it out earlier but when LL said it, It stuck and it made an impression to this day !! And I’ll put this out there for ya’ll young Heads: Notice how NO ONE Challenged LL other than the Emcee battling him – Canibus.
who the 3 best mc’s jay-z nas biggie
Nobody really said anything about the poster… And Rakim is better than LL in content and lyrics and he is on another level. But with a name like Ladies Love Cool James, he created the love rap song, he made hip hop the scene it is today. Rakim is history but LL was the future. LL beat Rakim because he changed the game forever. Compare Nas and Jay, who took rap to another level and got notice on a national scale. Jay more than Nas. LL more than Rakim. No matter how much they are lyrical beasts, by the end of the day LL is your favorite rapper’s favorite rapper’s favorite rapper.
When it comes to bars…in the 80s…it was rakim,krs,g.rap, big daddy kane and ll cool j…they were all nice…but when ll was in his prime..he was really nice…not only on 4321 but I shot ya..he killed that verse..ll had verses and killer lines..all that swag shit..was invented by ll cool j and big daddy kane..I don’t think bar for bar ll was nicer than rakim but I think in a battle ll would give it to krs one..it would be close..but ll had those lines and vocab..also slick rick is good and had style but his bars wasn’t on those 5 level..he had great songs and great stories..but he didn’t have that rewind quality like rakim,krs one,g.rap, kane and cool j..
Cats hate on LL. But if you check the stats LL flipped every single style before your favorite rapper did it. LL was the blueprint for the pop champagne 90′s. LL has the battles, the rhymes and the bitches. And he did it all without a crew. And can STILL spit! STILL. His last album was slept on. It’s fucking incredible the career this man has had. 10 platinum albums. 2 gold albums. SHIT is INSANE. 3 generations. Rakim, Slick Rick, KRS, none of them can touch that.
Lmaoo…im steroid up on 50.
Well, to compare these three is somewhat unfair. I agree with Trilogy about the older/younger LL. But one thing people have to realize is that you don`t have to “BE There” to know.The music is timeless,the lyrics to these artists songs have not changed. He was going off the lyrical standpoint. To “Be There” is to see the personnas that go with the music. Joe went off sales ,and forgot about skills(the same mistake so many people make). We want the younger generation to respect and appreciate real hip hop. I think Charles made a observation that most kids his age would not.That shows he listens and examines the music.No matter how many they have slod or not sold they all have the one thing that most artists want,but don`t have LONGEVITY.
LL > Rakim + KRS
Ok that might be a stretch but he is better in my opinion than both of those cats. Rakim, had him in only one aspcect, lyric for lyric. LL’s flow, LL’s ability to put songs together, LL’s albums, LL’s and LL’s live shows are all WAY better than anything Rakim put out.
KRS in his heyday had LL on lyrics too. They were equal in stage shows.. LL has more diversity. They both won crucial battles. But LL outlasted him too because he knew how to flip his style. So LL is better than both.
Charles Hamilton has made 6 good songs and 156 bad ones. Those 6 I bump all the time…but this guy’s corniness is really getting next level.
It’s hard to compare those 4 individuals and I find it funny how some of ya’ll are trying (Much Respect though). In a beautiful world All 4 would still be poppin’ today with no problem and it’s a Damn Shame it’s only 2 of them still reigning ( Uncle L and KRS). I on another note find it so funny how some of ya’ll can still sleep on LL Today with all the music he’s been droppin’ that’s been posted on this very site but I guess what he spit on Do-Re-Mi still holds true “Show me a nigga who can do what I do/and gas your man up, so I can rip that Nigga too/braggin’ you going platinum like that shit’s Brand New/I was Platinum in ’85,What the Fucks wrong with you ?! Come play Hater now, what you Rocks to me is minerals/try to throw salt on my name-shit’s political. The Baddest Man on the Planet/So ILL when I’m spittin’ niggas take it for granted”
where the fuck are they at in this video?
Charles looks like a homo IMO
No one challenged LL cause he never stayed in that intellectual mode or field of rapping. Not to mention he was by far the most mainstream rapper in the 80′s. If you battled LL Cool J you’d lose record sales. How could you compare someone who’s albums consisted of party songs, bagging females/female problems/etc. and money.
LL rarely had intellectual songs about struggles, the hood, politics, his personal heartaches in life. He never came across as an in-depth artist. Not to mention most of his hit songs were club oriented songs. Even if it weren’t about a girl/money he used a beat that was radio friendly. No hardcore or intellectual type beats except “I Shot Ya (Remix)” & “4, 3, 2, 1″ (Which is the same album when he came out w/ wak as “Phenomenon” when he was painted in black and silver)
Look at all his main releases. No aggressive or intellectual raps that would make a rapper at the time entertaining battling him. He was way too mainstream. People rarely even went Gold back then and he was THE only artist going platinum or Gold. You were fucking ya money up if you went at LL.
Let me say this I AM A LL FAN! But he’s never been a rapper in that zone to be doing intellectual songs. He has but was never a lyricist like he’s peers. He’s been a historic hit maker and songs for the ladies, maybe the best of all time in that field. He has battled rappers but they never got the light he did so why continue to battle somebody who will never lose a fan no matter if he loses a battle. He did battle cats, like Big Daddy Kane, Kool Moe Dee, Ice T, MC Hammer, Cannibus.
Check the stats. Impressive but you can count on one hand all the hardcore/intellectual releases. This man definitely deserves top 20 or top 10.
Radio (1985)
Rock the Bells
Bigger and Deffer (1987)
I’m Bad
I Need Love
Walking with a Panther (1989)
Going Back to Cali
Jingling Baby
I’m That Type of Guy
Big Ole Butt
One Shot at Love
Mama Said Knock You Out (1990)
Around The Way Girl
Mama Said Knock You Out
Jingling Baby (Remix)
The Boomin’ System
To da Break of Dawn
14 Shots to the Dome (1993)
Back Seat
Pink Cookies in a Plastic Bag Getting Crushed by Buildings
Stand by Your Man
Mr. Smith (1995)
Hey Lover
Doin’ It
Loungin
I Shot Ya (Remix)
Phenomenon (1997)
Phenomenon
Candy
Hot Hot Hot
4, 3, 2, 1
G.O.A.T.
Imagine That
10 (2002)
Luv U Better
Paradise
All I Have feat. J Lo
The DEFinition (2004)
Headsprung
Hush
Todd Smith (2006)
Control Myself
Showman3000, come on man !! That’s what I’m talking about. Fuck his singles man. Peep the cd. No Intellectual shit ! Are you on crack man ?
Bigger and Deffer – The Breakthrough
Walking with a Panther – Def Jam to the Motherland
Mama Said Knock you Out – Illegal Search
14 Shot’s to the Dome – Buck em Down, All we got left is the Beat, Diggy Down, Crossroads
Phemomenon – Hot, Hot, Hot, You Wanna get Paid, Father (Peep the stories)
The G.O.A.T. – This is us, Homicide, I can’t think
10- Big Mama
Todd Smith – We gonna Make it (ft. Mary Mary)
You like him but all you did was list his singles. I can’t judge you but if you didn’t hear or think much of these, you’re not much of a fan. Niggas let his Image cloud their judgement too much.
As far as who has more hits, battled mc’s on wax and won. Is still dropping albums and keeps reinventing himself with the everchanging times – LL Cool J
Who was a lyrical pioneer, still commands respect, dropped 3 classic albums and is regarded as one of the best or thee best ever to do it – Rakim
Lyrically Rakim is better but LL is more successful. It seems LL has more experience in the battle department though. I would love to see them both battle. Shit I wouldn’t know who to put my money on though!
Ohhh and Charles Hamilton is a chump!!!
Curtis75Black said this on December 23, 2008 at 10:24 am
^^^^^^^^^^
You make a valid point. However, I showed his hits because that shows to me what he’s more interested in. I have or heard most of those albums through either me buying ‘em or my sister buying ‘em and I always got the vibe that the songs like the ones you mentioned were just songs to maintain his male audience. They worked though I must admit cause some of those songs are my favorite songs. However, they just don’t sound authentic.
For ex on the album “G.O.A.T.” he was tryin to shut his critics up about his lyrical intellect and street flow. Which he shouldn’t have to. Why answer something that you haven’t been portraying for almost 9 albums at that time. He had a song with Prodigy called “Killa Queens” Huh? Song was hot but come on man. Why these last 3 albums he’s tryin to be street and poetic all of a sudden when he hasn’t done so most of his career. One or two songs (if that) per album where he recruits a spitter to feature or does a solo lyrical track by himself is not enough.
I don’t dislike him I’m just being honest from my perspective. I bought some of his albums for those same hit records. My 3 favorite LL records are “Pink Cookies In A Plastic Bag Getting Crushed By A Building” (longest trk title ever lol), “Back Seat” and “Doin It” tied w/ “4, 3, 2, 1″
LL Cool J is a great Rapper/MC just not in the top lyricist. He has lyrics just not as potent as the top 10 rappers simply because he lacked substance. He had substance just not as consistent as the rest.
Showman, I feel you but that’s the diversity of Uncle L and Fans trying to Keep him one way or the other. Look at Big Daddy Kane, Legendary Lyrical Beast if there ever was one and like Uncle L had a Crazy Female Fan Base and used it to his advantage but it did shut out his male fans to the point where ya’ll ignored homie, something ya’ll couldn’t do with LL cause he always had tracks for the brothers !! He wasn’t the one posing with madonna and rocking tracks with Barry White, BDK did that !! uncle L always kept that balance. Could he have dropped more street Elemented tracks – Damn Right !! But after awhile, niggas started sleeping.
If you don’t know about these tracks Peep them:
Do-Re-Mi – Erick Sermon cd
Blink Blink
4 Seasons- Black out cd
Incredible- Keith Murray cd
ZoomZoom – Bulworth Soundtrack
Shut em Down
Rasta Imposta
The Truth
New York Gangstas
Put your Hands in the Air
Dear Malacka
One in the Morning
10 Million Stars
Fa Ha
Mirror Mirror (Unreleased)
Know Why
Ringtone Murder
Better watch Me
Time for War etc……
Mc Lyte said it best when she said, LL always been Hardcore but he knows when to turn it on !! He started in ’85 at 16 years old. Proving himself is a non issue. This nigga has so many Underground shit it will blow your mind
Point goes to curtis with the Mc Lyte quote
ll cool j. over rakim. thats funny. i dont care how fucking old you are if youve heard it and you respect the chronology, you get a fair opinion. but seriously LL got raps and rakim got poems.
Curtis75Black
^^^^^
I mean you’re entitled to your opinion but MC Lyte (who is great by the way) is wrong. “Turn it on” that’s a lame excuse.
I’m saying be hardcore just be more soulful or intellectual with your music. If he was always so called hardcore why 90% of his releases were chick/club/radio friendly songs. So she’s basically saying that his “Hardcore” music was overshadowed by his softer stuff? Which probably is right. However, then why most of his singles weren’t “hardcore”? That shows he had no confidence in his “hardcore” stuff or was more focused on the fame and money and didn’t think his “hardcore” stuff would keep his fans.
A lot of the songs you put up I didn’t like. Now hear me out, most of those songs were not wak they just weren’t very believable. No soul! They were just bars not jewels. He lacked a lot of “food for thought so to speak” just punchlines.
Now I’m sure the 1st signed rapper who ever said “I’m hot like the sun” was the shit but 10 years later most listeners would be like “that line was kinda lame”
Now giving jewels could consist of punchlines but seldom so. Just plan knowledge and wordplay is something he didn’t do much.
LL Cool J is the shit for I feel he was the most successful rapper using punchlines and songs for ladies. There were rappers who used the similar style but he was the most successful. I am not saying his music was wak cause for I bought a lot of it.
I just never felt connected to his intellectual or hardcore or life songs. I did depending on the song but the songs I did connect to were mainly his radio friendly songs.
I normally identify with most artists songs that aren’t released as a single or the soulful songs whether they become singles or not.
He could make 50 million hardcore songs I wouldn’t believe it.
LL Cool J is great again just not up there in the top lyricist field. He is up there in the successful rappers. Shit some of the rappers who are some of the best lyricist are not in the top 10 successful rappers. Rakim would definitely not be in the top 10. It’s all relative. I think on what the topic is at hand. LL Cool J in my eyes is THE most successful rapper of all time. Any rapper who is more successful than him have had extreme advantages so I don’t even consider them.
**I’m NOT saying be hardcore just be more soulful or intellectual with your music.
Cool, Showman3000. I truly understand your point. And probably at one point in my 33 years, I would’ve sided with you 100% but LL came in the game when Commercial Sucess was all peeps was looking for. Run-DMC, Fat Boys, Whodini- Fresh Fest. MTV was what we wanted to be on. Radio Play was essential. He didn’t start with Rakim, KRS, Big Daddy Kane or debut within the Red Black and Green, “Self Destruction/We all in the same gang”era of Hip Hop, eventhough he ghostwrote MC Lytes’s verse for the track. It’s like Hating Micheal Jordan for not wanting to be affiliated with a Cause that every new Basketball player is rocking because it’s hot. No way shunning what Rakim did for the Hip Hop because he’s a true blessing but I can’t – CAN’T put him above a man who’s still rocking while Rakim himself hasn’t made a peep in the game since 99. Niggas waiting for 7th Seal like Dr. Dre’s Detox and Believe it or not Rakim’s solo cd’s were good but not all that impressive. I get you though, especially on the “Poem” tip. We just have 2 different point of views but have the same level of respect.
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